Changes in 2005 Prius

The continuous production idea sounds reasonable but it generates another question. When do the cars begin to be called 2005 models? When they're produced after January 1, 2005?

If the rear wiper has a negative effect on mpgs due to increased drag, the same probably appplies to removing the wheel trim rings and adding moldings to the doors.

 

The last thing I saw in the press was that the 2005 'model year' for the Prius begins in October.

 

If the EPA has a set dollar amount for base pricing ($20810 with freight?) and every car is $26000 at sticker, the car gets re-evaluated for classification and also -- the HID headlamps are limited as well... so are the NAV screens.

 

*blink* Why does the EPA care how much the car costs?

Seems...odd.

Not that it's a big deal for me. The NAV system, like the SS/SE feature, is entirely optional for me...

 

actually considering that this is the 2nd year of this design and all the others went 3 years, i would be willing to bet that the 2006 wont have much changes either.

 

Also mentioned in another thread as the explanation as to why the EPA is involved with specifically the NAV system and HID lights (noted by Dianne) is the added heavy metals entering the waste stream.

 

How much weight & heavy metal can NAV add? What is it, really? An antenna and a chip. maybe two chips: a receiver chip (radio) and a processor chip. As for HID headlights, I didn't want 'em!!! I had to take them because I wanted VSC, which really ought to be a standard safety feature on all models, along with the full airbag package.

Oh, yeah. The NAV has a DVD. What's that weigh? a pound?

 

I agree with Rick, my understanding was that the EPA's concern is the increased weight of the NAV equipped vehicles. Toyota had projected some percentage of NAV vehicles for import, unfortunately the demand for the high end models exceeded Toyota's expectations.

As for the added weight, doesn't the NAV option add another box under one of the seats? It might only be 10-20 pounds, but it might be just enough to make a difference.

 

i dont understand the EPA's meddling into the nav thing either. and if thats the case, then the nav should be an option on to itself like floor mats or something.

and i agree with Daniel, i didnt get the option packages because i refuse to pay for things i dont want to get the things i did want.

the antenna for the nav is the one built into the windshield, so it would be there for the radio anyway. the screen is already there. i will admit the nav adds more electronic frequencies to the air... that might upset the EPA since alarmists are complaining about the health benefits of cell phone towers that are springing up all over the place. although it should be an FCC problem. but the only reason the EPA got into it is because the FCC determined that it wasnt a problem, so lawyers, in their infinite wisdom, simply kept going until they could find someone who would listen.

so the bottom line is once again something wonderful will not be as wonderful because of some totally groundless claim made by a lawyer would couldnt figure out an honorable way to make money.

 

Okay, I get it. If the NAV really adds 10 lbs (which I find hard to believe!) and they tested a base model for mileage, added weight might throw off their (notoriously inaccurate) mpg figures. A car with NAV might burn an extra tablespoonful of gas a year. The HID headlights, if they take more energy to run, might burn an extra tablespoonful of gas over the lifetime of the car.

On the other hand, I don't know why I care. I'm not in the market for a new Prius until the next major model revision. And that's probably 5 years away. 3 if I'm lucky. I'm hoping for a bigger battery & motor and a 25 mile EV range.

 

actually i think the current model wont change much but the Prius line will be expanded...

although a mileage hit would ressult, i see a Prius convertible aimed at the younger market coming soon.

 

HID headlights actually take less power than normal halogen bulbs (almost half as much).

What I find ironic is that the EPA is restricting the import of a vehicle with extremely low emissions. Apparently adherence to regulations is more important that reducing pollution and our dependance on foreign oil.

 

the HIDs work like neon lights.. but the gas is Xenon.. so it burns hotter. The weight they are mentioning should probably be the ballast units. They will add a couple pounds. I don't see them adding a lot though. I think whomever wrote that article is crazy

 

In my search on the relationship between EPA and HID headlights and nav systems, the only issue that comes up is Mercury - and that issue is extremely small for both products compared to other sources of Mercury. For instance, your typical home thermostadt uses 3 grams (3,000 mg) of Mercury. HID headlights use .0005 to .001 grams (.05 to .1 mg) of Mercury.

I couldn't find anything that said that the EPA is driving the elimination of HID headlights. It's the individual states that are making the push. California, for instance, recently tried to incorporate legislation that would limit the amount of Mercury in cars to .01 grams (10 mg). That's still 10 to 50 times more than found in HID headlamps.

Here's a paragraph from a NEMA source that I found:

"NEMA Lamp Section Opposes Bills Banning Mercury Products in Cars

The NEMA lamp section has submitted comments to legislators in Massachusetts and Rhode Island opposing legislation that would ban the sale of automobiles containing any mercury added product. Such a ban would affect High Intensity Discharge headlamps. The Massachusetts bill also would require auto manufacturers to pay for replacing any mercury-added component with a mercury free component. The NEMA comments point out that HID headlamps represent a trivial source of mercury, that they are easily recyclable, and that they provide improved visibility while using less energy than their halogen substitutes. NEMA also pointed out that non-mercury headlamps cannot be used to replace HID headlamps without changing the entire electrical system at a cost in excess of $1,000."

Even a single 4' flourescent lamps which in recent years have dramatically reduced their use of Mercury still use 10 to 50 times as mercury as HID headlights. I haven't yet found how much is used in tooth fillings, but I suspect it's more than is used in our HIDs.

Toyota has eliminated Mercury from all but the HID headlamps and the navigation display (Toyota and Honda have done much better than most car manufacturers). I suspect that, if there's any drive to eliminate HID headlights it probably comes internally from Toyota. Although I didn't find anything directly from Toyota on the subject, here's a quote from a Honda representative:

"Raney explained that while Honda did not use mercury switches in their cars, they do use mercury in high-intensity discharge (HID) lamps and backlit navigation panel displays. By 2004 Raney said he expects nearly 100 percent of Honda’s cars to use from .5 to 1 milligram of mercury in HID lamps. However, Honda is working toward a mercury-free car before the end of the decade, he said."

Here's a quote from a Mercury removal panel discussion I found:

"The mercury in HID lamps and displays are less of a concern to the panel because they represent much smaller amounts of mercury. The lamps and screens also are resalable commodities, whereas the switches are not."

Anyhow, just thought I'd share.

Ken

 

From what I've been told.. they don't use filling that contain mercury anymore. They switched to Porcelain. I would guess Porcelain to not need any mercury. Any more info on this subject, although completely off topic, would be of interest.

 

I don't think there'll be a Prius convertible. But as Toyota is committed to offering HSD in all its models within a few years, there may be another convertible with HSD. Just my opinion.

No governmental body is ever concerned about anything but following its procedures and regulations and obtaining funding for its continued existance.

Thanks all for the info on HID headlights and mercury. Personally, I think that brighter headlights is a two-edged sword: you can see the road better, but you blind the on-coming driver.

 

Your welcome. I have also found this post informative.

The part about blinding oncomming drivers. The car companies are getting better at fixing this problem. The best at it so far ( in my opinion ) is bmw. Their leveling mechanism works very well. Supposedly the prius headlights are autoleveling. I believe this is only at start though. I've seen a new BMW headlights turn on.. they actualy point up.. then down.. then level out. It's entertaining.

 

Why, because it is going to destroy the roads with it's massive weight? :roll:
It weighs ~200 pounds less than a base model Camry. I guess they shouldn't allow too many Camry XLEs in because they weigh over 200 pounds more than the base. We can have LOTS of Excursions, Hummers, etc because; well, I don't know why.

 

I say if they are concerned about the NAV weight they should make the gas tank smaller ,like 10 gallons . I think its clear now that Prius owners wont mind a smaller tank considering most are getting 45+ miles per.. Maybe that will save the NAV system? I like the NAV and most cars will have them as a regular option. They should not go backwards because of weight .. Anyone with me?