Changing the PSD fluid?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(htmlspinnr @ Jul 15 2006, 05:42 PM) [snapback]286924[/snapback]</div>

Are the quantities correct?

For the NHW11, the procedure in Volume 2 of the maintenance manual calls for 4.6 liters of Type T-4. I suspect the NHW20 also requires more Type W. You also need to decide if you're going to replace the inverter coolant. It also has a replacement interval.

The "filter" in the NHW11 is really a screen on a take-up pipe. It doesn't need to be replaced unless you find 'stuff' in it and can't clean it. There is an "o" ring for the pipe. When you drop the pan and start cleaning wiping out the gunk, you may want to clean the pipe. But you really should have a new "o" ring if you take the pipe off. I will on my next change.

Otherwise, you're on the right track.

GOOD LUCK!

Bob Wilson

 

wow I paid $11.00 for the gasket but only $5.42 per liter for genuine Toyota Type T-4 tranny fluid. Bought a whole case of it with one leaker which I returned and cost was $59.68 for 11 liters. Sound like your getting a bargian on the gasket. oh Canadian $$ so suck 15% off the price in USD. It better come over night air UPS

Rick the silicon is in the order of on average 230 parts per million. You won't see any visible dirt. That is probably the average now for 10 Prius and their all in the same range so I doubt that it's dirt contamination, it's like my UOA company said a non abrasive assembly compound or grease or gasket material. I think it's a non issue. If the fluid is really dark or smells burnt then consider a shorter change interval. So it sounds like Bell Road Toyota is a rip off?

 

on the Classic when you change the coolant the next time just use the SLLCoolant and go with an extended drain interval. Most UOA labs also test coolant as well for usability. The real secret is to not use any water in the cooling system other than distilled water if you want long life from it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(htmlspinnr @ Jul 17 2006, 01:15 PM) [snapback]287628[/snapback]</div>

My local Toyota service shop has a parts department and I get my standard parts and fluids from them (not the Amoil.) Is there not a local source?

BTW, I admire your work on that oil filter.

Bob Wilson

 

Rick in your wife's Classic I'd probably consider Amsol ATF as it is the only one that lists Type T-4 compatibility on the label. Also if push came to shove I really doubt that Toyota could say that the fluid wasn't T-4. If it's clean and the TBN is ok I really don't think it will contribute to the failure of the PSD. Lets put it another way, the WS fluid is fine in a 2k4-6 and the real guts of the PSD haven't changed and your flush with money, what the h**l fill with WS. What were trying to do with a fluid change is stave off the failure of the PSD. I'm using T-4 because I got a case of the stuff cheap.

 

Thanks to a timely contribution by Dr. Jeffrey Denenberg and his 04 Prius, 61,000 miles, we have added Type W, transaxle oil test results to the existing transaxle test results:

http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/pri_T_cold.html

There are several conclusions we can draw:

04 Prius transaxle oil viscosity wear rate - right on the numbers after 61,000 miles. At 40C, there was a 13% decrease and at 100C a 14% decrease. This is right under the 15% decrease that indicates the oil should be replaced.

04 Prius particulate counts at 61,000 miles - about half of the 03 Prius counts at 53,000 miles. Connecticut has less air-borne dust and heat than Texas but these are much better numbers.

There was evidence of dust/grit in the used 04 Prius transaxle oil. However, it is a "sealed" unit similar to the 03 Prius. Unfortunately we won't have the breather vent tube test results until later this year. Furthermore, the 04 Prius does not have a pan to drop to allow cleaning out the residual drit/grit/debre.

This 04 Prius transaxle oil look better than the 03, 02 and 01 results in viscosity and particulate counts. But the wear metals look higher and it appears to share the problem with dirt/grit. We asked the testing service to check the breakdown voltage (they also do transformer oil testing) but they need a larger sample.

PLANNED FOLLOW-UP:
1) OEM 04 Prius transaxle oil change interval, 60k miles, is OK.
2) Complete the dust/grit contamination experiment.
3) Investigate dust/grit cleaning processes for NHW20 Prius.
4) Monitor progress of transaxle oil filter experiments.
5) Provide dielectric breakdown samples.

Bob Wilson

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(htmlspinnr @ Jul 20 2006, 05:11 PM) [snapback]289626[/snapback]</div>

The oil testing services sell sample supplies but that makes sense only if you have a shop and a fleet of vehicles to monitor. Buying 'onesies-towsies' is very expensive. Fortunately, we have a 'Mike's Surplus' store, a warehouse full of odds and ends. I picked up a dozen urine sample bottles, polyethelyene, for $1.50. Your local drug store might have them too. But lacking something like that, a polycarbonate water bottle, small one, will work just fine. Just make sure the bottle is dry since one test is for water. When you ship the sample, make sure they know it is an 'oil sample' so they will use ground shipping, a question of safety.

Now that we've got a Type W virgin sample test, it makes sense to also test your NHW20 oil. I'm not convenced the particle test, an extra $22 from PdMA, is needed unless there is something suspicious about the sample. For example, it smells burnt or otherwise seems 'funny.' But you do need the viscosity at both 40C and 100C, the 'cold' and 'operating' temperatures to calculate the percent of viscosity loss, 15% being the limit.

NOTE: we didn't have a large enough sample for a dielectric break-down test. If you can capture ~200 ml. of the used oil and use PdMA, I'll handle the extra cost of the dielectric break-down test. Just send me a copy of your initial results so I'll have the sample ID and I'll arrange and pay for the extra test with PdMA and you will get a copy too.

Bob Wilson

 

I haven't forgotten this thread with my filter plans. Things have conspired against me but the bracket is done and the Banjo fitting done, and the filler plug mod is done and I soldered an Rochester Quadra Jet main jet and drilled it to .022 and have installed it in the tube on the Banjo. All that remains is to mfg. the hose fitting on the pump and install all of it on the car. Hopefully in the next week or so. I'll post pixs of the parts and the final install.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ Jul 31 2006, 11:42 PM) [snapback]295548[/snapback]</div>

I look forward to the results.

Bob Wilson

 

finally got some spare time and put it in. Now that I've done it would I recommend doing this..... a resounding No..... The fitting where the fluid comes from the test port on the pump isn't a standard item. #4 JIC male to 5/16" UNF is the only thing that I could find so to make a long story short 4 trips to the hose/fitting dealer I finally got a 1/4" NPT male to 5/16" hose barb fitting and turned the JIC male to the ID of the hose fitting and silver soldered it together. Problem solved. The return banjo fitting I drilled and tapped a Toyota PSD filler plug to accept the banjo. In the end of the banjo I soldered an old Rochester QuadrJet primary jet and drill it to .022" Filter adapter bracket I drill and bolted to the front of the lower rad support and then plumbed the whole thing with Weatherhead push on hyd hose. This has a working pressure of 350 psi but despite the 1 1/2 PSI of the PSD pump I put hose clamps on the ends. Filled the filter with TypeT-4 and fired it up and got it hot then pulled the banjo of the fill plug and held it in my drain pan and had the wife fire up the car, nice steady dribble coming out of the fitting. That tells me the pressure is sufficient to push the anti-drain back valve off the seat. Tied all hoses to keep them from moving and chaffing against stuff replaced the lower splash pan and let it down. Probably spent 5 hours today and about 3 hours making the filter adapter. Cost effective? quick answer NO. Still fun to do and will keep an eye on it and in about 10,000 kms 6000 mile will pull the filter and change it as they only cost me about $5

 

Impressive job! I especially like the last one that shows how to access the oil pump side of transaxle. I've been using drive up ramps, not quite up to the task.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ Aug 4 2006, 11:08 PM) [snapback]298109[/snapback]</div>

I'm curious if you know what sort of pressure change the filter causes? I don't think the transaxle bearings are pressure lubricated but I'm curious.

Bob Wilson

 

judging by the amount that is coming out of the banjo fitting I'd say probably nothing. The amount that came out is in the order of 2 table spoons in 5 seconds maybe a bit less. I thought of putting pressure switches on both sides but from what I saw there, it'd just be a waste of time. The #4 JIC fitting that screws into the pump has a hole in it less than 1/8" so that is the primary restriction and the jet with the .022 orfice is the secondary restriction. The two things that the pump lube when the ICE is running is the bushing on the sun gear, that and small orifice that lubes the planets. Hence the 1.5 PSI lower limit. Most of the internals of the PSD are lubed by splash or dip.

 

yuk that stuff is so far past good that your lucky the stuff on the magnet is all you got . That stuff is toast. We'll be waiting for the results of the UOA and no they won't have the virgin sample results. It'll cost you for two test to have a comparison. The sample that I sent in looked like the new stuff that you pumped in. The air sound that you heard was a vacuum that gets created in the case because of the design of the vent, which is a one way valve that expels the air in the case as it heats up and puts the case under a partial vacuum. This helps keep the seals in contact with the shafts on the axles and input shaft from the ICE to the planet carrier. A lot of the auto parts stores carry an assortment of clips and hold downs and trim screws etc. and probably cheaper than your dealer, if you know what your looking for. Thanks for the post.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ Aug 4 2006, 11:08 PM) [snapback]298109[/snapback]</div>

Frank

Well, it would still be nice for you to spend some time at my hobby farm and do the same thing to my '04. If we see any funnel clouds we could always cower in the basement and whimper ...

jay

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(htmlspinnr @ Aug 6 2006, 11:32 PM) [snapback]298871[/snapback]</div>

Rick

Geez, when I did my '04 it was nowhere near as bad as the fluid you got out. Mind you I did mine around 12,000km, and I was concerned enough even then. If Toyota is calling this a "lifetime" fluid for American Prius owners, I'd wonder what happens by the time you hit 120,000 miles??

I also had the hissing sound. Probably the case vent allows air out but not much air in.

I used one of those plastic orange transfer pumps, I think they were originally made by Mityvac. Got it at a surplus place called Princess Auto for $8. Works slick and quick.

If you have some acreage, like I do at my hobby farm, you can make a vehicle ramp out of old railway ties. It's very strong, with a gentle enough ramp even the Prius doesn't scrape. Sure beats jacking things up or trying to squirm under and get squashed.

jay