Charge mode

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by park187, Dec 22, 2016.

  1. priuscatprimeguy

    priuscatprimeguy Senior Member

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    Time for a road trip, a really long one

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm thinking the same, cali and back, leave now, return in spring.;)
     
  3. MikeDee

    MikeDee Senior Member

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    Yep. Drive out in a PIP, come back in a Prime.
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    and dinner with dianne, oh, the possibilities. :)
     
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  5. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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    Will this screen display charge mode regen or just braking/downhill regen.
    Curious as to what the rate and totals might be
    OM pg 258
    upload_2016-12-26_22-6-23.png
    Regenerated amount of energy
    It appears during driving or parked.
    1. Shows the energy regenerated every minute.
    2. Shows the energy being regenerated while hybrid system is operating.
    Every time the power switch is turned to off, the value is reset.

    Save and clear(reset) on the fly? Each charge mode or downhill event could be sampled?
    OM pg 259
    Resetting the data
    ●Selecting “Clear” on the “Trip Information” screen will reset the trip information data.
    ●Selecting “Clear” on the “Past Record” screen will reset the past record data.
    ■Updating the past record data
    Selecting “Update” on the “Past Record” screen will update the past record data.
    Also, the average fuel consumption displayed in the multi-information display will be reset at the same time.
     
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  6. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    So I just did Charge Mode on a hill that was a little over a mile. With the regen breaking and charge mode (we're not supposed to go above 40 mph on this hill but it does have a steep grade) - my MPGs went up but my EV range went up real, real fast! Not sure if this is the way to use it. But I did see a 6 mpg gain overall in my trip.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    now do it again without charge mode.:)
     
  8. Since2002

    Since2002 Senior Lurker

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    Unless I am missing something I assume that for a plug-in the primary goal regarding EV is to arrive home (or wherever you will next be able to plug in) with the battery as depleted as possible, which then allows for the maximum amount of charging from your power source, which in most cases will be cheaper and cleaner energy than what the ICE can generate even under the best conditions (except of course regeneration).

    If I am right about my first assumption, then the complication, and the main reason for all of these various user-controlled modes is that the HSD doesn't know how many more miles remain until the car will be charged again. Thus (if I understand correctly) it splits the battery power (mathematically not physically) into EV power and traditional hybrid power. The HSD continues to manage the hybrid "segment" of the battery, meanwhile it gives the owner primary management of the EV segment of the battery, i.e. the owner can choose when EV power will be used by selecting EV drive mode, and also control when and how the EV segment of the battery is charged, including of course the newfangled Charge Mode which is the topic of this discussion.

    The problem with putting all of this control in the hands of the user is that unless someone really knows what they are doing they can easily make choices that are less efficient than what the HSD would do. But again the HSD's hands are somewhat tied because it is missing that one important piece of the puzzle which is how many miles remain until the car will be fully charged again. Maybe in the future, in addition to hybrid mode and EV mode, there will be "NAV mode" where you can have your trip programmed into the NAV (including repeatable trips like your daily commute), and by selecting this mode you are informing the system that you plan to charge the car at the final programmed destination. The HSD could then manage the entire battery, and probably more efficiently than a typical owner can flying by the seat of their pants and playing around with all of these different modes. Especially if future map data includes accurate elevations so that the HSD can anticipate hills.
     
  9. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    The problem is, even programming your trip is insufficient because proper management will also include knowledge of future trips and of where and how you can charge especially if you are away from home.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    correct. but it has always been thus. we still have newbies coming with this question regarding all prius back to my 2000: 'i try to keep it in ev as much as possible, why are my mpg's so poor'?
     
  11. Since2002

    Since2002 Senior Lurker

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    I don't think that describes a typical day for most people. Most trips people know where they will be charging next (i.e. home) and they know what stops they will be making (if any) before they get there. At worst you might add one additional stop, like an unplanned trip to a store, or you decide to go with friends to dinner after work, in which case you add that to your route and the system can adjust for it. For long trips where you don't know for sure where you might be charging, well I think for most people that's not a typical day. Or someone thinks storing routine trips into the NAV is too much trouble (maybe that's because most NAV's are still not user friendly!) In those cases then NAV mode would not apply. Personally I often use my NAV even around town because I like getting updated ETA, and also traffic alerts. So if someone is already doing this, why not be able to link this to the HSD?

    And yes maybe after you get home for the day, you suddenly realize that you forgot to stop and get milk and you have to run out again without fully charging. Well again I think for many people this the exception not the rule. Someone who is constantly bouncing in and out of the house unpredictably then it doesn't work as well and the system would not manage it as efficiently as it could for someone who tends to plan their daily driving ahead of time on most days.
     
    #51 Since2002, Dec 27, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
  12. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    And most trips probably won't benefit from charge mode, especially if they end up at home (or a place where you can charge).
     
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  13. priuscatprimeguy

    priuscatprimeguy Senior Member

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    If you're on a long trip at highway speeds normally ICE is running with very little HV. except when coasting or regenerative braking. So you get 55 MPG. But with Charge Mode running (charging the battery to 80% then driving in EV till it runs out again) lather, rinse, repeat. You will get the aforementioned 640 miles of range.:cool:
     
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  14. Since2002

    Since2002 Senior Lurker

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    First to make sure I don't misunderstand and reply to something you didn't mean, I sort of moved my discussion beyond the user controlled charge mode which gives drivers additional control over their "sandbox" i.e. the EV segment of the battery. Part of my premise is that EV mode exists primarily because the system doesn't know the length of the trip, so by default it quickly "burns off" the EV segment at the beginning of the trip as that is the only way to ensure that the plug-in power that the owner puts in gets used up. And I suppose a secondary reason they offer EV mode is because a lot of people want the EV experience. But from what i understand EV mode is not always the most efficient use of battery power. These are after all hybrid cars not range extenders.

    Of course trip distances makes a difference (what you are referring to I think). If EV range is say 22 miles, and your trip to next charge is 25 miles. Well yeah that won't be much different than how it currently works. But let's say you plan to drive 40 miles today. In the current system, most people will do EV the first 22 miles (regardless of driving conditions), then HV the remaining 18 miles, where a limited amount of electricity will be generated by ICE, (from what I understand it tends to stay out of the EV segment of the battery). Manually selecting Charge Mode during the final 18 miles will likely make things worse, as you are forcing the engine to generate electricity into the EV segment even when it may not be efficient to do so. And then you have to switch to EV mode to use up that additional power, which again in my premise EV mode is not necessarily the most efficient.

    Whereas if the HSD is in control of the entire operation during those 40 miles, it may not start out with 22 miles of EV and instead mix in some hybrid mode at the beginning. And I think it still may decide to do some additional charging back into the "EV segment" if opportune moments come up where it can do it efficiently, and since it knows there are enough miles left that it can use up that additional power efficiently in it's choice of HV or EV (or a mix thereof).
     
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  15. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I'm not sure you made a point there. If you did, I failed to find it.

    The three situations where I see charge mode could *possibly* be beneficial:

    1. When there's no ability to charge, you already have a warm engine, and you know you'll be making one or more short trips at a later time. In that case, using charge mode before you stop could prevent those short trips from requiring engine warm up cycles.
    2. When you are out of Ev-mode range, and about to ascend a very large mountain. This could ensure you have plenty of battery charge before you start depleting it on a hill. If the G4 doesn't deplete the charge on a large, high-altitude hill, this one could be rendered unnecessary.
    3. When you are on a long, low-speed or high-speed but gradual downhill stretch, engaging charge mode could possibly increase the thermal efficiency of the engine, which has the potential to be very low at low power settings. If 3kW of demand becomes 10kW of demand, and thermal efficiency improves from 15% to 35%, that could be beneficial. This also remains to be seen.
     
    #55 Lee Jay, Dec 27, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
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  16. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    This could possibly be the most beneficial/important role of CHG mode; drivers like apt. dwellers or others who don't have regular access to a plug AND have a long enough, higher speed commute to get enough of a charge to drive enough EV miles on either end of the commute to make up for the lower gasoline FE during CHG mode. Think California HOV.
     
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  17. Since2002

    Since2002 Senior Lurker

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    Okay you are still talking about the current system so that's why you are missing my point. Sorry if I wasn't clear, I am looking past the current system. Looking at your examples:

    "you know you'll be making one or more short trips at a later time"

    You know that you are "about to ascent a very large mountain."

    You know that "you are on a long, low-speed or high-speed but gradual down-hill stretch"

    Add to these my example, you know that you will drive 40 miles today and then bring the car home to charge.

    I can even add fotomoto's example, you know that you currently do not have charging capability for your car.

    The common theme in all of these situations is that while we may know all of this, there is currently no way to inform the system of any of these conditions, thus it can't react accordingly. Sorry if I am being too futuristic, but with all of the technology advances we have seen in recent years I just don't think I'm stretching it that far into the future that the hybrid system should be able to know about or be informed of these driving situations. Instead of the user having to try and out-think the system by manually switching in and out of Charge Mode and EV Mode, which even the smartest driver won't have enough information or reaction time to do successfully in my opinion, or at least not as well as the system could if it knew what the current situation is.
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i suppose ai could use some type of programming to 'guess' at your future driving and charging, and be right a significant part of the time.
    toyota has already put in some type of learning mode, so that if you have the same commute day after day, the car will remember the hills, speeds, stops and etc., and run more efficiently in the future commutes.
     
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  19. Mister MMT

    Mister MMT Active Member

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    BMW has it on its 225 Xe plug-in (not available to North America, isn't it?).

    Jan
     
  20. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Oh it's already here in the most basic of forms. My Energi uses the GPS and on/off cycles to learn up to five of your most frequent destinations (home/work) and will allow a little more battery depletion than normal to get you to your destination in EV rather than fire up the ICE.
     
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