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Charging efficiency of PIP

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by 3PriusMike, Jan 18, 2013.

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  1. John H

    John H Senior Member

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    but it is significant in these calculations, much larger than "noise" in determining the charging losses.

    Do you have the kWh in/out of just the pure EV portion of the 130+ miles, like maybe the first 100 miles before the ICE came on?
     
    #21 John H, Jan 20, 2013
  2. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

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    I'm just reporting the data on the EPA site.. I've not measure it since I don't own one.

    On the other had others have reported that type of level, e.g. see
    First day with my Prius Plug-in | Page 4 | PriusChat
    for some 120v charging data (3.28kWh)
    and for charge point data over 3.1kWh see:
    Kill-a-Watt owners: PiP kWh usage accurate? | Page 2 | PriusChat
     
    #22 drinnovation, Jan 20, 2013
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  3. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    In your case, that was about .1 gallons then? Does anyone know how much electricity that would have resulted in? I am sure it isn't 100% efficient, after all it is running the engine, and going into generating heat, and charging the battery. But if only .03 gallons charged the battery, that is still about 1KW, or about 4% of your total Electricity measured.
    These small numbers would result in a significant change to the efficiency.

    I know the estimated EV range changed, but as the HV mode runs, does the KW used also change (assuming KWh used is displayed in the car?)
     
    #23 Zythryn, Jan 21, 2013
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  4. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    EPA said it takes 3.2 kWh (and 0.3 gal) to go 25 miles in PiP. I agree with drinnovation's assessment regarding the charging loss difference between L1 and L2 chargers and the "top off" overhead. EPA also said 2011 Volt takes 12.9 kWh to charge 10.6 kWh.


    POWER (P) = VOLTAGE (V) X CURRENT (I)

    Power, which expresses the work performed by electricity charging the battery within a given amount of time, is calculated by multiplying voltage by current. Doubling voltage (120 -> 240) would cut the current by half.


    Next, by following Joule’s Law (Calorie = Current ^2 x Resistance), the power loss in terms of calories is reduced to 1/4.
     
    #24 usbseawolf2000, Jan 21, 2013
  5. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Mike switched to HV mode at 55 mph and went for 5 miles. At that speed, I doubt ICE warm up would not make enough power. That means, the PHV battery power will be "borrowed" and the ICE won't shut down until it returned the "borrowed" charge. See this data I captured. I switched from EV to HV mode two times (ended with EV). The SOC management is pretty good.

    Why did his EV range went from 8.0 to 9.1 miles? Well, he exited the freeway so the regen brake recaptured the energy he used to get up to 55 mph (with PHV battery).

    The 5 miles in HV mode isn't counted as EV mile so, I don't think there is anything to worry about.
     
    #25 usbseawolf2000, Jan 21, 2013
  6. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Not exactly.
    The ICE definitely warmed up because after ~3 min I started getting > 75 mpg. Inititally EV charge went from 8.0 down to maybe 7.5 miles. Then in the last 2 miles or do the EV range went up to 9.1 miles. I switched out of HV and back to EV a bit before the exit and drove about 1 mile on city streets and was back down to ~8 miles when I parked.

    And yes the 5 miles in HV doesn't count for EV miles. I added 230 wh to account for adding those 1.1 miles. Maybe I should have added 300 wh? Who knows? But in the overall analysis, you can see if I add another 500 wh it won't change the numbers by that much...just 1% difference in the losses. So, as I said it is in the "noise." Recall that you only get a readout on the EV driving ratio screen of 1000 wh (1 kwh) at a time.
     
    #26 3PriusMike, Jan 21, 2013
  7. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    The method I used to determine how much gas was used to charge the battery was to observe the miles remaining. This value went from about 8.0 to 9.1. My full range charge was 13.0 miles. There I estimated that I had charged 1.1 out of 13 (or 8.5%) of a full charge of 2.7 kwh. This comes out to ~.230 kwh...no where near 1 kwh.

    Also, your conversion of 0.03 gal to 1 kwh is very far off. The ICE is only about 35% efficient in converting a BTU of burned gas into mechanical energy

    Mike
     
    #27 3PriusMike, Jan 21, 2013
  8. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Head hurts, brain full, too much data, too much data, blacking out!!! :confused:
     
    #28 El Dobro, Feb 2, 2013
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  9. DadofHedgehog

    DadofHedgehog Active Member

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    :giggle: :giggle: ...Who Let the Engineers Out?... (to the tune of "Who Let the Dogs Out" from 1999) :giggle: :giggle:
     
    #29 DadofHedgehog, Feb 2, 2013
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