Charging Speed, Battery Capacity and Prime itis

Discussion in 'Prime Plug-in Charging' started by johnamerc, Oct 17, 2018.

  1. johnamerc

    johnamerc Junior Member

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    Today I celebrated 4 weeks of EV Prime itis. Around 2,150 miles. Luckily around six 24/7 free Chargepoint level 2 stations within five miles of my office. More with limited availability. No level 2 at my home yet. Didn't plan to have purchased an EV yet 95% of my local miles are sans gasoline.

    My goal is 1,000,000 EV miles. Well 100,000 first.

    Averaging 33 miles per full charge. 2 charges per day . . . will take a while with this vehicle.

    When will Toyota double the battery capacity?

    Took 11 days before my gasoline engine even started. That was on a 450 mile round trip.

    J1772 has a 6.6 KW rating according to Chargepoint yet we charge @ around 3.3 KW per hour max.

    When will Toyota double the charging rate of the Prime?

    Already have one friend ready to shop for a Prime.

    Just signed up for electrive.com newsletter.

    My middle son lives 2 miles away. We are already talking about sharing a pure EV vehicle.

    This is getting serious.

    Hurry up Toyota.

    Oh what a month can do!

    John

    Blue Magnetism Prime Plus

    Previously 2001 Gen 1 and two 2010 Gen3 s: one Level II and then other Level III; booking over 800K hybrid miles.
     
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  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    The Prime is rated at 3.3kW so that’s the max it can receive even though the ChargePoint station can dispense more.
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    toyota will never double the battery capacity. 8.8 kWh was possible through a lot of arm twisting, kicking and screaming

    toyota will never double the charging rate, it would reduce the life of the battery
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    get a bolt/leaf/tesla
     
  5. breakfast

    breakfast Active Member

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    I get you - my Prime Plus isn't my first Prius either. A used pure EV vehicle as a second car for those in-town commutes with your middle son makes a world of sense :)

    But it's OK to embrace the gas engine on the Prime too - it's one of the most efficient gas engines on the planet with ~40% thermal efficiency. It will be even more efficient (relative to the battery power) as the temperature drops and you're tackling the Ithaca hills on a 5 degree Fahrenheit morning**. It's also super reassuring to have gas-powered long distance driving on tap in the event of an emergency. I've already needed that capability...

    **That said, the heat pump on the Prime makes it one of the most efficient cars on battery when temperatures are in the 20's and 30's :)
     
  6. johnamerc

    johnamerc Junior Member

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    Well we had snow here overnight and the heat pump handled it just fine. Love having heat and no gas engine waste!

    I am averaging 68 MPG on the 1,000 or so Gas (Hybrid miles) Must admit got lucky with some nice tail winds on two of the trip legs.

    Experience drove my choice to Prime not to mention $3500 from Toyota, $1100 from NYS and a juicy tax credit next April.
     
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  7. johnamerc

    johnamerc Junior Member

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    Noticed the NIO has a liquid cooled battery. Wondering if Toyota or someone else will sell a module battery to upgrade the current one in a few years?
     
  8. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    Toyota is in the business of selling new cars.

    There may be aftermarket add-ons, but I do not expect Toyota to upgrade used cars.

    I can wish that Toyota designs the Gen 5 with a modular charging unit, so you can get a dealer upgrade for 3.3kW, 4kW, 6.6kW, or 7.2kW chargers as you can afford the speed. (20 amp, 30 amp, 40 amp, and 50 amp breakers)

    A design for modular batteries is harder, as the load floor obviously changes.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    sorry, no. best you can hope for from toyota is a bev in the next 5-10 years. whatever battery engineering, i trust most will last the warranty.

    look at the past 20 years, there's a strong pattern.
    it is a very large ship with a very small rudder
     
  10. triggerhappy007

    triggerhappy007 Active Member

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    Unlikely to happen. The cost to upgrade will cost more than the price of a new car after factoring the resale of the car plus the cost of the upgrade.
     
  11. p74atrick

    p74atrick Junior Member

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    I drive my Prime from Syracuse to Whitney Point every day, so I completely understand your excitement

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  12. Old Bear

    Old Bear Senior Member

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    It's gonna get cold around those Finger Lakes. Your miles per change are going to go down. The heat pump will not be able to keep your windshield de-fogged and de-iced without help from the gasoline engine. And even when you don't need the engine, the heat pump will use enough energy keeping the cabin warm to substantially reduce your EV driving range.

    EXTREME-preconditioning.jpg

    Having said all that curmudgeon stuff: You're still gonna love this vehicle. It's comfortable, fun, efficient, well-engineered and will serve you well.

    Enjoy... and best wishes on many miles of EV driving!
     
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  13. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    You will need about 80 years to rack up a million miles with a prime, which makes for easy math.
    I don't even have to pull my shoes off.
    That's about 8-10 years for a Prime to knock down 100,000 miles.....and the battery will probably hold together for most of that.

    +1 for the Prime being "fairly" efficient....however (comma!) if EV is your thing, then you need a different mount.
    I'd lean towards a Volt.

    Not quite as efficient as the Prime, but price comparable, range extended, AND you get longer EV legs.
    If you don't dig domestic, Honda, Kia, Mercedes all make longer legged PHEVS.

    BMW also makes an i3 which is basically an EV that uses a small ICE as a range booster.

    Good Luck!
     
    #13 ETC(SS), Oct 26, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  14. johnamerc

    johnamerc Junior Member

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    Okay Old Bear, where can a purchase a pre conditioner like that?
     
  15. johnamerc

    johnamerc Junior Member

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    Approaching 2 months of ownership (officially Nov. 18 th 1 PM) Now 4919.4 miles. 2 trips to NJ accounted for around 1,000 miles. One trip to NC and other places south about 1,800 miles. One trip to PA and back 200 miles. All other miles in EV mode with the exception of unwanted gas engine start up. So by the time I stop in for the 5,000 check up next Tuesday about 40% of the miles will be EV. Trip 1 = 1331.8 miles 87.1 MPG (current tankful) Trip 2 = 4919.4 miles 115.5 MPG (lifetime stats).

    Of note EV miles peaked in the 33 to 34 miles available after a full charge until heating season kicked in. Now only 28 to 29.5 EV miles. Many rainy/snowy days this month up here in the Finger Lakes region plus less daylight.

    Have started to "pre heat" the passenger compartment on colder mornings using the same electric plug in heater I used in my 2010 Prius for years.
    Thought there was a way to preheat the Prime Plus with the charging cable plugged in, yet have not yet figured that one out.

    Most home charges are easily done overnight so for the moment I am postponing a visit from my electrician to add 220 V charging. Also what I read implies the slower the battery charges the slower it will age.

    Read about the Nissan Leaf issues w/ battery capacity deteriorating so now working on understanding more about battery systems and charging protocols.

    At least five free Chargepoint stations are within 3 miles of my office so if I am going out of town I stop at one to top off and walk while the charge completes forcing me to be more healthy.

    May rent a car on longer out of town trips while Tumbleweed 2 is newer so as not to depreciate it so quickly.

    Now I feel pain when the gas engine kicks in . . . at least for the first mile. One problem is my home is about 500' higher in elevation than my office and just 2.5 to 3 miles away depending on the route. Engine never kicked on for the first 10 days of ownership. Now usually kicks in before I reach the bottom of the hill. Wondering if the colder weather affects it? Also gas engine started up once going up a hill with 26 EV miles left. These are all hills I had driven many times during warmer weather in strictly EV mode..

    Noticed Toyota now offering $4,000 cash back on 2018 Primes.

    Enuff sail for now.

    Just go buy one!

    A great place for newbies and Prius owners to migrate.

    John . . . '01 Level 1 . . . 10 Level 2 . . . 10 Level 3 . . . '18 Prime Plus
     
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  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes, the cold does affect when the engine kicks on. try an experiment: charge to about 80% capacity on the meter, and see if it exhibits the same downhill behavior
     
  17. johnamerc

    johnamerc Junior Member

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    Thanks! The charge was down about 10% this AM w/temp of 33 degrees before leaving home and the gas engine came on; though it was just as I reached the bottom of the hill. When that happens I generally pull over; shut off the engine and restart as my office is 3/4 mile from there with traffic and the road is flat. No need to waste gas by warmingf up the engine just to park the car for hours.

    One last thing I forgot to mention is I have owned a California Waterblade (now apparently just called a Waterblade) for years. I always use it to remove any water/condensation inside and out before starting to minimize the defrost cycle. I even use the handle as an ice scraper in the winter.
     
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  18. EazyPeazy

    EazyPeazy Member

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    Yep. Looking forward to the credit myself!
     
  19. VTBIGDOG

    VTBIGDOG Active Member

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    You may be doing more harm in repeatedly not allowing the engine to warm up. Try putting in Neutral when descending, which may stop the regenerative which is causing the engine to start

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  20. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    OTOH, Putting it in N, will stop all regeneration, and solely use friction brakes. You will get lower MPG.
     
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