Chasing Camry: Chevy asks dealers to put a Camry in the showroom to sell Malibus

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 16 2007, 04:07 PM) [snapback]443626[/snapback]</div>

Well I would assume that probably at least 50 % of truck buyers are brand loyalists like my dad, but as you can see with my story from earlier, he has pretty much sworn off his beloved Chevy trucks and cars. I mean he is seriously through with them because every last one he has had since 1990 has had a new problem every month. Whether it be a Silverado, Cavalier, S10, Monte Carlo, Transport mini van its always been something. Now his brother convinced him that Ford is the way to go and I will almost bet when his 2001 Silverado dies so will his pride and he will switch to an F150 but he does like the Tundra we were looking at it at the car show in Cleveland and he was very impressed, just not in the market for a truck right now. But like I said earlier he has already started the process of converting because he already decided to write off Chevy and got a Focus.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(morpheusx @ May 16 2007, 03:10 PM) [snapback]443630[/snapback]</div>

That is where I grow furious about the whole thing. Some toyotas and hondas are assembled here using parts made in Japan but most of the major value parts(engines etc) are imported. All of the R & D is imported. If you question me, check out Toyotas own website. toyota employs less than 40,000 people in the US. For comparison, with Chrysler's recent announcement, GM, ford and Chrysler have laid-off or bought out over 100,000 employees in the last 16 months. So you do the math, to say that Toyota is not costing thousands of very well-paying upper-middle class jobs is ludicrous. Not to mention the lost billions not multiplying through the economy and supporting the governments through sales, property and income tax. The United States is being systematically "raped" economically by the Japanese and Chinese and our media continues to spread disinformation and our governments sits by and lets it happen. Ever wonder why the Japanese and Chinese have such massive consulates in Washington DC?

 

YOU CANNOT blame consumers for sales declines of GM. We as consumers have zero obligation to buy a particular companies product for fear that joe 6 pack loses his job. It is the company's responsibility to put out products that sell, not the consumers responsibility to buy them. If they had anything CLOSE to the Prius, people would buy it, even if it cost a little more. But we will NOT be force fed gas guzzlers against our wish. Part of my reason to buy a Prius was to send this very message. Change your G** DA** products! We can't afford to waste these resources anymore! I will be back to Chevy in a heartbeat when they can compete again.

I don't even hold the EV1 fiasco against GM. All car makers were put between a rock and hard place on that one. All the car makers made them (at a huge cost) to satisfy the law and stopped making them when allowed. All of them tried to recall them. Where's Toyota's EV?

My beef with GM is their alliance with big oil. Big oil has deep tentacles in GM's stock ownership. GM sold the NiMH battery to Chevron, who mothballed it for profit sake. This relationship is my sole worry about the promise of the Volt. I'm sick of the GM business model of "Screw energy security and the future, we need profits NOW"! With all the money they've spent (and continue to) in fighting advances in efficiency, they could have the VOLT ready to go!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(morpheusx @ May 16 2007, 02:30 PM) [snapback]443587[/snapback]</div>

Right. The GM vehicles I've owned have ALL nickeled and dimed me to death...replacing power window switches and power locking mechanisms, the struts which held up the hood...headlights...interior trim pieces...the gauge cluster (or, in GM-ese, the 'gage' cluster)...engine driven accessories like the A/C compressor, alternator, and power steering pump...oh, and how about that peeling paint?

Yeh, their engines were still running...but that was about it. The rest a pile, with little resale value.

It's fairly common knowledge that GM beats it suppliers into the ground in order to eek out every last cent of profit from each unit sold, and it usually becomes painfully obvious to the owner after about a year and a half...maybe two on the outside.

BTW, I'm not a huge Toyota fan, either.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 16 2007, 03:25 PM) [snapback]443648[/snapback]</div>

It's not the fault of the consumer, and "What's good for GM is good for America" is no longer true, either.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ May 16 2007, 03:31 PM) [snapback]443652[/snapback]</div>

First of all that quote was always misquoted second of all so would you say what is good for Toyota is good for America? They are certainly doing their best to wrap themselves in the stars and stripes.

 

What, the big three have a patent on the flag waving gimmick?
Listen to yourself man!
" I sell Chevy's and you're an Ahole for not buying one, you're killing the upper middle class." pssst...(You're hubris is showing!)

The middle and lower middle class are choosing to NOT pay huge sums of money to OPEC. I'm SAVING money on my Prius. I AM middle class and I'm far better off not relying on a gas guzzler. This fact is only going to worsen as oil gets more expensive. For every middle class joe that needs a new job, there are many others saving money on a reliable efficeint car, and those saving "multiplying through the economy" and on and on...And most of us are screaming for a plug in Volt.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ May 16 2007, 03:25 PM) [snapback]443649[/snapback]</div>

Again the statement you makes near the beginning infers that Toyota sells only Priuses and Prius-like vehicles. In 2006 Toyota sold just over 2,500,000 million vehicles in the US. What percentage were Priuses? About 3.5 %. What percentage were "fuel-sippers"? About 20%. Who percentage of truck business as a total part of their US portfolio is growing the fastest? I don't fault you for buying the Prius. I fault the guy who buy the Camry or Toyota SUv becuase he thinks it is AMericna and he/she doesn;t know any better. Then he bitches when he doesn't get that raise, his property taxes go up or he gets fired. That is who toyota is duping.

 

Why don't you quite bit**ing at Prius owners and start bit**ing at GM management to get on the ball. You're not going to change anyone's mind here until you actually have something like the Volt to offer us.

Just f-en crazy. Blame the consumer for terrible management above you. Just amazing.

I blame idiots who buy Sequia's TOO! I've never said Toyota is all holy. They are a FOR PROFIT company just like GM. But they offer at least ONE product that DOES appeal to me.
And it's the only foreign car I've ever bought. I'll never again buy a non hybrid car. And when I do, I hope it is a plug in, and I hope it's from GM. Until then, don't give me your guilt trip crap for your lack of a product to compete. Go to a Tundra site and guilt them!

Wth does buying a Camry over a Malibu have to do with no rising property tax, or a lack of a raise?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ May 16 2007, 03:55 PM) [snapback]443666[/snapback]</div>

Did you ever have economics? Do you think the US is better off when a Malibu is sold or when a Camry is sold? Has the $1,600,000,000,000 trade deficit the US has run with Japan since 1985 helped or hurt the US economy and all americans economically even the americans on Prius Chat?

 

Yes, I learned Economics.
Did you ever learn the laws of geology, biology, sociology, political science?
Do you ever learn to listen?
I would never buy a Camry or a Malibu, so your question is MEANINGLESS.
I will only buy an EV, or plug in, or since NEITHER are available, a solid hybrid, which can NOT be found in America. Many people like myself can read the writing on the wall.
Many people don't want to send AMERICAN dollars overseas to fuel our cars! Our trade deficit is largely oil purchases from the middle east! Part of which funds terrorism.
We want our money to stay here by paying for electricity, or US made solar panels to charge our US made car.

We want to change our consumption habits, but are not allowed to by corporate and political hubris and lack of foresight from overpaid CEO's.

And now I have to listen to a Chevy salesman tell me that I'm killing the middle class because I want to spend HALF as much on gas? I AM the f-en middle class. So are my friends and family and we're doing just fine, thanks. Sorry, guilt trips don't work on me.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ May 16 2007, 04:19 PM) [snapback]443683[/snapback]</div>

I am talking about the other 2.4 million people who bought Toyota's in the US last year. I have said on here several times that on here I have no problem with people who are buying priuses to burn less gas. YOu do state you do not want to send American dollars overseas, on that we agree. How many gallons of gas do you have to save before your Prius purchase begins to cut down on the trade deficit?

A barrell of oil is $65, the Us imports about 65% of its oil, i think I read approx 40 gallons of gas can be made out of each barrel of oil. Lets say your Prius costs $24,000. $24,000 divided by $65 dollars is 369 barrells of oil divided by 65% equals approximately 568 barrels of oil. 568 barrells of oil x 40 gallons =22,720 gallons of gas. How long will you have to drive your prius at 50 mpg to help with the trade deficit? I will respect trying to conserve on fuel and set an example but I think to help keep dollars in the US is a bit of a stretch. You only have to drive your Prius 1,136,000 miles to have a positive effect on the trade deficit. At 15,000 miles a year that is only 75 years! :lol: I hope your Prius wasn;t more like $28,000, i will have to start over. :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 16 2007, 04:06 PM) [snapback]443676[/snapback]</div>

No, I wouldn't say "what's good for Toyota is good for America" and I think I've already explained why. But good try at derailing the discussion.

So, you're saying that it's OUR fault that there's a trade deficit? And surely you're not suggesting that it's our patriotic duty to buy and consume inferior products...?

Also, the trade deficit contributes to a weaker dollar, which economists will tell you is actually helpful to some sectors of the economy.

Why are you so panties-in-a-twist about all of this? Why does this evoke such fervent nationalism in you? All GM has to do is provide us with better product...and we'll buy it.

Not a better WARRANTY...a better CAR!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ May 16 2007, 04:30 PM) [snapback]443693[/snapback]</div>

Actually it is fairly well documented that the Japanese government keeps the dollar/yen relationship artifically low to help keep the Japanese products low priced. So in some ways GM and Ford are not only battling toyota they are battling the Japanese government.

I am not for buying inferior products as a patriotic duty. I am for letting the American people know the whole story about how the auto sector and some other sectors affect our economy in such a huge way. Do you think Japan would ever let GM and Ford sell 40% of the vehicles in the Japanese market?

 

I think they should put my 1994 Camry next to a 1994 Malibu, both with 160,000 miles, both with the service records, and let people take them both for a test drive.

It's the quality of my Mom's 1986 Camry that led me to buy my 1986 4WD Pickup which led me to buy a 1994 Camry which led to my 2004 Prius, which would leads into my new Toyota Sienna (coming soon).

GM keeps promising better, but thoughts of the 1984 Cutlass Sierra still stings, and the 1986 Camry still makes me smile.

Toyota is reaping the benefits of long term R&D decisions, that is, investing in design choices that cost a little more now but reduce the cost of ownership and frequency of repair.

I would buy a Tundra over a Chevy Pickup just based on ease of powertrain servicing alone.

malorn, has Chevy added drain and fill plugs to their differentials yet? Are the differentials bench serviceable? Or must the differential be serviced while standing under the truck? How about the rear main seal? Must the crankshaft still come out on the engine to change this? Or can this be done without even removing the oil pan, like on a Toyota?

How about amber turn signals? Can I get them on the current Chevy truck? They improve my safety and ability to signal a turn. (Something simple).

Just a few, actual, real world technical questions. Can you answer them?

Nate

 

My last reply, work days done.

I don't applaud people buying other Toyotas, I would reccomend an American car to someone not interested in a hybrid, (after I recommend a hybrid).
I paid 22.5
Oil will not be at 65/barrel in 5 years, when I'm still driving my Prius.
If I put on 100,000 miles (easy), divided by 50mpg, that's 2000 gallons of gas. I will have not burned about 2000 gallons of gas in that time. That's a savings of over $6000 at TODAY"S cheap price of gas.

What you are asking people to do, is spend more money over the life of their vehicle (on gas, maintenance, etc) in order to feel patriotic. And a good portion of that money spent on extra gas goes to Islam. What more do I need to know? Maybe GM should just subcontract to build Prii here in the US, so we can feel better about ourselves.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ May 16 2007, 04:33 PM) [snapback]443696[/snapback]</div>

Not off the top of my head but I can tell you the average Toyota customer spends 78 (NADA)percent more per repair order to service his/her toyota than the average Chevrolet customer does. toyota dealers make unbelivable amounts of money as a whole in their service departments.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 16 2007, 04:32 PM) [snapback]443694[/snapback]</div>

Well, the big problem in Japan is that they drive on the other side of the road; American manufacturers have always felt that it's too costly to make cars that can be configured for either.

The Japanese, however, don't seem to have a problem doing so for our market. Even some earlier Lexus were originally JDM models, redesigned for America (the ES 250, based on the Leopard, for example).

American manufacturers have not yet been able to do/been willing to do anything similar. This is the REAL reason behind the dearth of American cars on Japanese roads (that and that fact that most of ours are too big and fuel ineficient).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ May 16 2007, 04:42 PM) [snapback]443703[/snapback]</div>

Do you really believe that some percentage of Japanese would not like to try some "foreign" car? There has never even been 4% import penetration in Japan. That includes everyone, GM, ford, DCX, VW, Renualt, Porsche etc. And GM has tried to market the right-hand drive cars in Japan as have others. Anyone who markets cars in Britain woul dhave something to ready-made for the Japanese.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 16 2007, 05:37 PM) [snapback]443700[/snapback]</div>

I just traded my 2005 Tundra and never had a repair order, so how does that figure into the equation? 78% of 0 is still 0.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 16 2007, 05:45 PM) [snapback]443705[/snapback]</div>

That is because there is a 50% excise tax on cars brought into Japan. A $20,000 car will cost the consumer $30,000. And a very very small percentage of Japanese own cars.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mpgFanatic @ May 16 2007, 04:51 PM) [snapback]443706[/snapback]</div>

So how many Japanese cars would be sold in this country if the playing field was level? An the repair orders is an industry-wide average and includes maintenance.