Chasing Camry: Chevy asks dealers to put a Camry in the showroom to sell Malibus

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 16 2007, 04:45 PM) [snapback]443705[/snapback]</div>

Not if it doesn't get as good mileage and doesn't stay together as well as what they can already get domestically.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 16 2007, 04:45 PM) [snapback]443705[/snapback]</div>

4%? Of the total number of cars on the road? Actually, you'll find that Porsche and luxury brands do okay in Japan...but their volume is so low that it doesn't really make an impact.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 16 2007, 04:45 PM) [snapback]443705[/snapback]</div>

Halfheartedly. Can you tell me which model(s) they tried over there, and when?

There has NEVER been a real effort on the part of ANY American manufacturer to penetrate the JDM with a homegrown product.

Sure, Ford could sell Volvos over there...and GM could sell SAABs...but we're talking about DOMESTIC product, right?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 16 2007, 05:54 PM) [snapback]443712[/snapback]</div>

My dealer gives 2 free oil changes when you buy the vehicle, plus lifetime inspections. My TOTAL out-of-pocket maintenance for that vehicle was $0.

If that had been a Chevy (I have owned a few in my days), I would have been in the service department every month for something.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ May 16 2007, 04:55 PM) [snapback]443713[/snapback]</div>

We are talking about roughly the same number of vehicles as a percentage that Lexus and Scion sold in the US in 2006. Can you imagine how different the US market would be if GM, ford and Chrysler controlled 96 percent of the market. It is much easier to be aggressive abroad when you have a protected cash cow at home.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ May 16 2007, 04:55 PM) [snapback]443713[/snapback]</div>

I know there have been saturns and cavaliers tried. There is not only the excise tax there are many laws about distribution channels which stiffle imports. Think about it, as poular as US culture is in Japan, you don;t think Chevrolet or ford would be able to sell a few units in Japan? I would think it would be easy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 16 2007, 05:37 PM) [snapback]443700[/snapback]</div>

So, why not switch and sell Toyotas? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The cited statistic is cost of repair. Without a frequency of repair statistic, there is no way to compare cost of ownership or reliability. So, if I own a Toyota, I pay 78 percent more for a repair IF I need a repair. Why not cite a NADA frequency of repair statistic of Tundras (or any other Toyota or Honda) and compare that with a GM or other similar vehicle?

It seems you like to cite statistics that support your viewpoint and, like other sales oriented people, keep the rest of the story under wraps. I'm not buying it.

You seem like an educated person. You must know that many of the reasons for the US losing jobs and the high trade deficit can be found in Washington, DC - not in people who refuse to buy crap.

 

Again, if you bought the Prius to save on resources I am fine with that. I am not fine with consumers buying Toyotas and thinking they are getting an American car and not hurting or even worse yet helping the American company. One of the reasons the Tundra is struggling so much is the marketing campaign was scratched at the last minute because of the Silverado "Our Country Our Truck" campaign. The new tundra campaing was going to wrap the new truck in the American flag. That is the kind of crap that kills me.
Toyota is continually pulling money out of this country, every week, every , day, every hour, every minute. 60-75 % of their global profit comes form the good 'ol USA.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wiyosaya @ May 16 2007, 05:10 PM) [snapback]443721[/snapback]</div>

I agree with you on Washington DC. Someday we will look back and wonder how it happened to us. The statistic is that the average Toyota customer spends 78% more each time they visit a dealership than a Chevy customer does on customer pay repair orders. Also per vehicle sold, Toyota and Chevy Warranty dollars are almost equal with Chevy actually spending less some months. It is even more remarkable when you factor in that a huge portion of Chevy's fleet is trucks with two drive axles.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 16 2007, 07:52 AM) [snapback]443206[/snapback]</div>

Although you may be right about Toyota reducing their forecast of sales of Tundra (I couldn't find evidence of this - I only found references to a goal of 200,000,) I think you're fooling yourself if you really think "Tundra strikes out." At least one "fact" on the subject here states that Tundra sales were up 74% in April over last year, whereas Silverado pickup sales dropped 7.2% for April, and F-150 sales were down 13.7% for the year. Note that according to this site, the Tundra 5.7 liter engine didn't become availabe until mid-March, so the 74% April number could have been heavily influenced by this event, possibly indicating future sales may be even better. Anyhow, extrapolating from this one data point (heck, everyone else here does it, why shouldn't I?) leads to a yearly sales figure of 215,000, up from 124,000 last year. If I had a sales business, I'd be quite satisfied with "striking out" every year!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 16 2007, 05:07 PM) [snapback]443718[/snapback]</div>

Well, here's were we may agree (and it's probably more than we think):

--The Japanese domestic market is, indeed, restrictive, compared to ours. For lots of reasons, some economic/political in nature and some which have more to do with their culture and the physical size limitations.

--Also, since their market for automobiles is smaller overall than ours, there is indeed less profit to be gained there, than there is for them, here. This, for me, actually speaks volumes about our country.

--I find myself wondering --naively, perhaps-- if the Japanese aren't at least as nationalistic as we are about stuff like this...it might be impacting their car purchasing decisions far more profoundly than you or I realize. Also, I suspect that, while our popular culture is hot, our domestic automotive products aren't, really.

--If it's any consolation, European manufacturers haven't successfully penetrated the Japanese market, either. This does, I think, further support your point that there are some unique restrictions to selling cars in Japan. It's actually kind of quaint that the Japanese still feel the compulsion to indulge themselves in protectionism...I'm glad that we don't do business that way.

-------------------------------

That said, what I really wish GM would do is just keep its corporate nose to the grindstone, and keep swinging for the fence. Spend the money to support longer term projects which futher their corporate vision (whatever that is)...then DON'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING UNTIL IT'S REASONABLY CERTAIN THAT THE PRODUCT WILL MAKE IT TO MARKET! For me, it's their penchant for talking a bit too much, and delivering too little, that hurts the most.

Either do the Volt or don't talk about it. Either make the BAS thing work or don't bother. Ford's no different; they both waffle incessantly. I could go on and on about these things...and it makes me SICK sometimes!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 16 2007, 05:27 PM) [snapback]443727[/snapback]</div>

I don't follow; Chevy's truck fleet uses solid axles, doesn't it? Coil springs aside, these are the cheapest to manufacture, least space efficient, heaviest, and least sophisticated setup available today...fewer parts should mean fewer service issues, right?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ May 16 2007, 07:00 PM) [snapback]443785[/snapback]</div>

I agree with most of your thoughts. Gm and Ford have made way too many missteps over the last couple of decades. If you are frustrated as a consumer, you should try it from my angle four generations of blood, sweat and tears and lots of investment tied up in Ford and Gm and to a much lesser degree Chrysler. Especially GM has done a 180 from where they were 5 years ago. Only time will tell but they are building great product that is far underrated for the most part.

I am frustrated on many levels with our government and media, they have and are being played by the Japanese and now the Chinese in such a way that future generations will have to pay for our wayward ways of trade. It is no coincidence that there are deficits every where you look in this country and our collective future is being mortgaged by the Chinese and Japanese. Only this country would let key industries be systematically targeted and decimated by foreign competition and their governments. Can you imagine the screams heard from Tokyo, Beiging and Seoul if tomorrow we enacted reciprocting trade deals with those three nations.

-All tarriffs and fees would be matched 1 for 1.
-All hidden fees and regulations prohibiting free trade would be enforced on that countries goods entering this country.
-Any underwriting or outright governments subsidies on shipping or the production of a countries goods would be measured and the appropriate tarriff would be placed on said goods entering this country.
-Any purposeful interference of currency exchange rates by governments would be measured and a duty placed on said countries goods comensurate with the interference.

This would be fair trade and only these policies would lead to real FREE TRADE! Until this happens we as a nations are stooges who are being taken to the cleaners.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ May 16 2007, 07:08 PM) [snapback]443785[/snapback]</div>

What I meant is the vast majority of Chevy trucks which fo rht emost part have four-wheel drive. Two drive axles which means there are at least theoretically two drive lines to have trouble with. It is part of the reason an extended service contract is more expensive on a four-wheel drive vehicle.

 

I used to live in Germany and trust me, the Europeans don't want our cars either, which is why the American companies have bought interest in alot of them. GM owns Saab, Opel and a few other Euro only cars, Ford owns Jaguar, Volvo, Aston Martin. Most of what they sell over in Europe are rebadged to their market in a Euro nameplate.
Ironic is that GM once had a deal to rebadge Cavaliers in Japan with Toyota, and it was infamous for being one of the worst cars you could buy over there.

To penetrate the Asian markets GM once owned controlling interest in I believe Subaru, Isuzu and Daewoo and it didn't work, and Chrysler once owned about 1/3 of Mitsubishi also with hopes to penetrate the Japanese market. Oh by the way GM imports alot of their vehicles for example the Chevy Aveo is an Asian built car built at a Daewoo facility. And I can't count the number of times I have looked at the sticker in the window of a GM car whether at a car show or lot that has numbers like 56 % North American parts, Engine Mexico, Transmission Canada. If the manufacturers want to play the patriotic game maybe they should build the cars like Japan does the Prius, 99 % parts from Japan. (another irony is even my Goodyears that came on my prius say Made in Japan)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 16 2007, 09:04 AM) [snapback]443260[/snapback]</div>

True, my Prius does not average 45mpg. It averages 49+ mpg. Stranded in my Delta 88--yes. Stranded in my Prius--no. Never owned a Malibu. Never will.

 

Before I bought my Prius, I had a 1998 Chevy Malibu then a 2002 Chevy Malibu. I had good luck with thosse cars and have nothing bad to say about them. Gas mileage would average around 27 mpg. I don't care for the look of the 2008 Malibu. I am one of those people who was always saying 'buy American' but I finally decided screw it, I'm buying something that gets great gas mileage regardless of who makes it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ May 16 2007, 08:01 AM) [snapback]443228[/snapback]</div>

But how does it drive? What about how it's made? What kind of repairs will I need to pay for in the first five years? How will it hold up after ten years?

Looks are shallow. I don't need a Bimbocar.

 

Ok malorn, you've got us with the Tundra, Land Cruiser, Sequoia, 4Runner, Lexus LX and GX sedans. So, here's my reply to you:












So, how are any of these better, in terms of gas mileage, than the aforementioned SUVs and 1 pickup truck that you were attacking Toyota with? Let's see, that's 6 V8-powered guzzlers for Toyota, 10 gas drinkers for GM. Care to go on?

(Besides, the first time I looked at the new GM trucks, I actually felt nauseated by the styling. Every time I see the new Silverado or Sierra, I feel queasy)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 16 2007, 05:32 PM) [snapback]443694[/snapback]</div>

Malorn, have you ever been to Japan? Do you know any Japanese nationals? I can answer yes to both of those questions because I work for a Japanese company here in TN. Where a family owned company purchased land from an American 17 years ago, paid Americans to build a factory, and now employs 250 Americans and 8 Japanese. Last year they paid $2.5 million in corporate income taxes, and took about the same about back to Japan in profits. Just part of the raping of the American middle class.

The reason that 40% of cars sold in Japan aren't GM cars is that GM doesn't make cars for the Japanese market. A malibu wouldn't fit in a Japanese parking space, parking garage, or car stacker. In Japanese apartment complexes they have conveyors that stack cars vertically to save space. The average car in Japan is about the size of a Honda Fit. American products have prestige in Japan, Harley Davidson's are very popular among the rich. You just have to have the right product. How many cars does GM build specifically for the Japanese market? Don't blame the Japanese for not buying a product you don't make.

As for me, my first vehicle was a 87 GMC S-15. I had to pull the engine to replace the rear main seal at 105K miles. I also had to replace the gas tank, both front driveshafts, and the rear tire holder fell off because it rusted from the inside. I had a 91 Cavalier Wagon that was reliable if less than luxurious. If you say the current vehicle are more reliable I'll believe you but when it came time to buy a car this last fall I was shopping based on MPG. Does GM have even one vehicle that gets 35 mpg combined? How about 40 mpg? 45 mpg?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ozyran @ May 16 2007, 10:00 PM) [snapback]443870[/snapback]</div>

What's this one? It is so bloated butt ugly I feel like I have to take some Peptobismol or Tums.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimN @ May 16 2007, 09:55 PM) [snapback]443834[/snapback]</div>

My parents had a Delta 88. Absolute piece of dogcrap. I was driving it once and the car filled with smoke from the power windows. They've always owned either Oldsmobiles, Pontiacs, and an occasional Dodge- every one had problems. My dad was pleasantly surprised when he bought a Honda CR-V a few years ago- a car that actually runs all of the time! I have owned a number of Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans (and an Acura and an Infiniti)- never had a problem with any of them, and never spent a dime on any of them except for scheduled maintenance and normal wear and tear items (e.g., brake pads).
Someone posted a link on another thread recently on cars with the worst reliability; Malibu was #10 on the list. The Prius is ranked number one in reliability by Consumer Reports. I'm hardly losing any sleep about being "stranded in my Prius"!



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ May 16 2007, 11:25 PM) [snapback]443888[/snapback]</div>

Does anyone here watch The Sopranos? (click on link to reveal identity) was driving the exact same vehicle when he got killed this week!

 

Okay, Michael, you are seriously, and I mean for real, going "on notice" for throwing a Sopranos spoiler right in the middle of PriusChat.

NO, I have NOT seen it yet 'because I don't have HBO.

No warning or anything? thanks for ruining my entire DVD season.

Keep your mouth shut about LOST, which I will be watching on DVD this summer.

Nate

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ May 17 2007, 12:14 AM) [snapback]443906[/snapback]</div>

OOPS! It didn't occur to me that some people don't see it until the DVDs come out. Sorry! Pretend you didn't see it- I edited my post so you have to click on the link to see who was killed.
I don't watch Lost, so I have no idea what happens on that show.

 

GM and FORD did Control and lead the Industry ONCE UPON A TIME. Do you remember what happened?

They gave the farm away with their poor products and lousy attitude, and opened the door for Honda and Toyota. Then when the gas crisis hit, people like me and my family who bought "American" could not afford these gas guzzlers that were now falling apart in 2 years and didn't last long enough for one to get it paid off.

I was a receptionist for an Oil Wildcatter, making $1000 per month. I bought the cheapest car, that would last the longest, and stood a chance in hell of me getting my loan paid off. Honda Accord. Drove it from 1985 until 1993, and sold it to my little brother for a Hot Shot Business.

I have a cousin in Louisiana with a Ford Dealership. Several of us even purchased trucks and "the supposedly most dependable car built - Taurus. These cars about ran us broke.


I am tired of hearing about the poor auto workers. They work the same day(or less) as the Japanese worker, yet they can't build a decent car. They have had more benefits and perks than most other US workers and now that they have to join our ranks, they want special treatment from the government. Hogwash.


Do you ever see a 3-5 year old GM, Chrysler, or Ford Car that doesn't look like it has been through hell and back?? I see a lot of them on the road and they look like the junk that they are.

Not many American Middle Class folks can afford to keep buying a new car every 3 years, to be left with theirs worth 1/3 -1/4 of the price, if anyone wants it, and still owing 2 years worth of payments.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusmaybe @ May 17 2007, 12:32 AM) [snapback]443918[/snapback]</div>

To be fair, I don't think that you can blame American auto workers for the crappy cars built by US auto makers. Honda and Toyota manage to build excellent cars in the US, built by American workers. We also have no shortage of engineering talent or technological capability.
Every time that I read someone like Bob Lutz quoted in the news, it confirms my assesment of what is wrong with American car companies- they are run by idiots.