Chasing Camry: Chevy asks dealers to put a Camry in the showroom to sell Malibus

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 16 2007, 05:06 PM) [snapback]443676[/snapback]</div>

Then please tell the BIG 3 to produce something I need!!!!

I drive 75k miles per year, and there isn't a single car in their line-up that is as good for the environment and as easy on my wallet as is available in the Asian line-up. And you can read any reliability report, KBB, Edmunds, CR, etc. Americans just don't stack up.

I tried using "American" cars for my work, and somewhere between 75k and 150k, I was beginning to hit major repair work, most of which was beyond warranty. I was also lucky if I got more than 30MPG LIFETIME for any of their vehicles. My Prius currently has a LIFETIME MPG of 45.4...never going to happen with any of the current "American" line-up.

I would have to say that I blame the BIG 3 for the trade deficit because if they would have been at the forefront of the market, then they would have been making cars that Americans would have been buying...instead we have to go over seas to find what we want. Tell them to make what "we" want here, and I will buy here.

 

Would you believe that this is the 2007 Cadillac Escalade EXT?

It's nice to know I'm not the only one who feels nauseated looking at any of the new GM vehicles. They all make me feel nauseated!

On the other hand, it does make the vehicles from the other manufacturers look that much better.
Oh, and concerning the new Malibu: it may look nice, it even has a touch of elegance, but a Camry has 2 things that the Maluibu just does not have:
1.) Toyota's rock-solid reliability and proven quality.
2.) An optional hybrid powertrain! (Isn't that one of the things we love about the Toys anyways?)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ozyran @ May 16 2007, 10:00 PM) [snapback]443870[/snapback]</div>

My point is that Toyota builds more and more "gas-guzzlers" every day and is never called on it. A candidate for President of the United States recently said the "Japanese average 45 miles per gallon with their vehicles". Humor me check out the gas mileage of all these Suv's and pickups and compare comparable mpg for the GM vs Toyota. You will be shocked. Toyota gets a free pass on gas-mileage because of one car. they infer in some of their truck commercials about how much better gas-mileage the toyota must get becuase it is a Toyota. If you are concerned about fuel usage in this country because the 2-4 mpg saved by GM pickups over a comparable Toyota ads up to huge savings. Remember Toyota is lucky if they sell 10,000 Priuses in a month. Some months there have been a quarter million pickups sold in the US.

 

I think Pepsi is better than Coke....discuss.

 

March 2007: 34,000 Toyota hybrids were sold. 20,000 of those were Prii. april 2007: 27,000 Toyota hybrids. 13,000 were Prii. either way, Just a bit over the 10,000. thanks for playing.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/05/reported_us_sal.html

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ May 17 2007, 06:52 AM) [snapback]444043[/snapback]</div>

How many Priuses were sold in 2006? 106,791. Two months does not make a year. A bit less than 10,000.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 17 2007, 12:28 AM) [snapback]443916[/snapback]</div>

Not to spend too much time off-topic .... OK, maybe I will.

Some of us won't see it then. I don't have HBO either and I rarely buy DVDs. I'm watching it on A&E, now airing the third season. Thanks, Michael, for adding the link.

 

Malorn just doesn't get it. I will not ever defend Toyota for building the Tundras and the gas guzzling Lexus cars. What my problem that GM, Ford and lowly Chrysler only have the short sightedness to build more of the gas guzzlers. Look at all their line ups they are Truck and Crossover SUV heavy and get a whopping 20 mpg downhill with a tailwind. The small cars they build are total c**p. They let you know with every switch you turn on or door you close you've just bought a piece of absolute junk that might last out the payments due. Go sit in a Corrolla the door has the same thunk when you close the door of the Lexus not the can of beans you just opened for dinner like the Chevy Aveo. The seats in the Corrolla and the Honda Civic don't feel like a padded park bench. I would actually by and American made car if there was one that was actually American made. Look at the stickers 35% from Canada 20% from Mexico on the GM, Chrysler and Ford sticker. Last time I looked Canada & Mexico were not part of the U.S.A. This argument can go on forever and I not sure why you choose to be a part of this chat group when all you do is p**s on the parade.

 

I'm just putting it in terms that GM can understand...two months at a time.

Cheers.

 

I haven't read this whole thread because it's just a bicker fest. Anyways...I sell Toyotas, and it's practically impossible NOT to sell a Tundra. They sell themselves. We have droves of people coming in and falling in love with them. They're seriously the best there is at the moment.

Off to work I go.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FBear @ May 17 2007, 08:43 AM) [snapback]444058[/snapback]</div>

Are you serious?

Dude, I had a Corolla for a loaner the second time my Prius went belly up, and the doors didn't have the same thunk as a VW, let alone a Lexus.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(freke70 @ May 17 2007, 09:18 AM) [snapback]444069[/snapback]</div>

I think you may have hit on it. For many years now I have felt that Detroit has tried to tell what we want while Japan has responded to what we want.

The fact that Tundra has made such a big dent in the US truck market is very damning evidence of just how good Toyota is at what they do.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 17 2007, 07:39 AM) [snapback]444038[/snapback]</div>

All cars are the Automatic Transmission
City / Hwy

Chevy Aveo 26 / 34 MPG <-- yes this little piece of crap only gets 34 hwy
Yaris 34 / 39

Chevy Cobalt 24 / 32
Corolla 30 / 38 MPG

Chevy HHR 24 / 30
Matrix 29 / 34

Chevy Malibu 24 / 34 (22/32 3.5L V6) (18 / 26 3.9L V6
Camry 24 / 34 4cyl (22 / 31 V6)

Chevy Impala 21 / 31 (20 / 29 3.5L V6) (18 / 27 V8)
Avalon 22 / 31

Chevy Hybrid Sedan (currently unavailable)
Prius 51 /60

on average that is about 3.2 MPG on the fleet and beats or meets in every line
it doesn't sound like much but on a 13 gallon tank that adds up to close to 42 extra miles which is equivalent to approximately 1 1/2 gallons or close to $5 off on a tank of gas in comparison (at these high prices)


Lets face it I bought my prius because I needed to get a new car, I am the type of owner who keeps thier cars for 10 years, and even though I saw cars that right now are "better deals", long term I just did not want to take the chance on another car that only got 30's type MPG, how much is gas going to be in 2 years, 5 years, 7 years, do you get see what I'm saying. And it doesn't hurt that Toyota Prius according to consumer reports has a solid reputation for reliability.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FBear @ May 17 2007, 08:43 AM) [snapback]444058[/snapback]</div>

Are you saying that Toyota's line up is not Truck/SUV heavy? Let's compare the lineups of Toyota and Chevy:

Toyota
-------

CARS:
Avalon
Camry
Corolla
Matrix
Prius
Yaris

TRUCKS:
Tacoma
Tundra

SUV/CROSSOVER/VANS:
4Runner
FJ Cruiser
Highlander
Land Cruiser
RAV4
Sequoia
Sienna

Toyota Total: 6 car models, 9 truck/SUV/crossover models


Chevy
-----

Cars:
Aveo
Monte Carlo
Corvette
Malibu
Impala
Colbolt

TRUCKS:
Avalanche
Silverado
Colorado

SUV/CROSSOVER/VANS:
TrailBlazer
Tahoe
Suburban
Equinox
HHR

Chevy Total: 6 car models, 8 truck/SUV/crossover models

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mpgFanatic @ May 17 2007, 08:29 AM) [snapback]444075[/snapback]</div>

so far the Tundra has been way below expectations. It is early yet but the first three months of the new Tundra have been staggeringly bad for Toyota. Toyota also announced they have permanently stopped development of heavy-duty pick-ups. So Mr toyota salesman must be seeling all the Tundras himself. :lol:


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ May 17 2007, 08:37 AM) [snapback]444082[/snapback]</div>

Thank you for the honesty. toyota is working diligently behind the "hybrid" smokescreen to take more and more of the truck and suv market. the Prius is a great car, I don't deny that. toyota has received way too much credit for it and it has given them a free-pass on so many other fronts.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 17 2007, 09:40 AM) [snapback]444084[/snapback]</div>

Isn't it ironic that Toyota acutally has more Truck/SUV/Crossover/Van models than Chevy?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ May 17 2007, 08:51 AM) [snapback]444088[/snapback]</div>

Even more ironic to me is what did toyota just make a huge investment in the United States to produce in mass quantities? Was it the Prius or the "biggest, baddest truck on the planet"? To quote the head of Toyota USA. That decision spoke volumes to me about what toyota is really interested in. As always follow the money.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 16 2007, 06:27 PM) [snapback]443727[/snapback]</div>

I guess I'm not getting something here because I see nothing remarkable. What is remarkable to me is that you still fail to cite a frequency of repair statistic. So, since I own a Toyota, I'm going to spend 78% more, on average, for repair than someone who owns a US brand. However, in the nearly 1 year that I have owned my Prius, I have not had to visit the dealer once for anything that has gone wrong. I've only had scheduled maintenance performed.

Perhaps I should put it this way. If I buy vehicle A and I have to take it in for service 3 times, and I also buy car B and I have to take that in only once for the same thing that car A needed, and I pay 78% more for the repair for car B, then I have still spent less on service for car B because I have had to spend more time taking car A in than I have had to take in car B. Are you getting where I am going here?

If I have to take in car A 10 times to car B's 1 time, then the cost difference is in favor of car B even though car B costs 78% more to service. Just because car B costs 78% more if it has to be serviced means nothing if car B needs to be taken in some fractional amount of times that car A does. So, car B is still more economical to own than car A. Is this a clear concept?

Have you also heard of planned obsolescence? That is the concept that some things are designed to break down after a certain time period so that the consumer of the product will have to buy another one. Did it ever occur to you that this just might be common practice with some US automakers? Why anyone would buy from a company that makes things that are designed to break is beyond me.

My wife's father just dumped a Dodge RAM pickup because he had nothing but problems with it. Guess what he bought? I'll spare you the suspense. He bought a Toyota Tundra because of the reputation for quality. He, like I am, is very satisfied with his purchase.

My last car was a '94 Acura Integra. Why did I buy that particular vehicle? Reputation for reliability and high resale value. I also knew, up front, that it would cost more to service IF I had to have it serviced. At the same time, a coworker of mine bought a '94 Z-26. Within 15,000 miles, she was driving on the expressway one day and lost her tranny. All I could think at the time was "thank God I did not buy American!!!!!"

Go ahead, pretend that America's problems are foreign made. I'll say you are in denial until you point the finger at Americans like yourself who take the easy way out and point the finger at everything else but the real source of the problem. US automakers have designed, built, and sold crap for years and it is going to be a long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, time before they get out from under that cloud.

From some of your other posts, I am willing to bet that some of the stuff that you are spewing is the GM hype that they are shoving down your throat. I fault you for that - for listening to their hype and not thinking for yourself. GM's hype is hype. Nothing more. They are hyping items that have yet to hit the market and be proven in actual use. It is a sales ploy, and nothing more at this point. To you and GM, I say, prove to me that your vehicles are far more reliable than any other car manufacturer with years of independently obtained reliability, customer satisfaction, and repair data, and I might listen, but until you come up with that hard data, you're just spouting hype.

Good luck, dude.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wiyosaya @ May 17 2007, 09:03 AM) [snapback]444095[/snapback]</div>

What I am saying is that if a Toyota Dealer services(repair, maintenance, oil changes) 100 Toyotas the average repair order bill will be 78% higher than when a Chevrolet Dealer services 100 Chevys. This speaks much more to the mindset and expectation level of the respective owner bases. That was my point. and those are very real NADA statistics.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wiyosaya @ May 17 2007, 09:03 AM) [snapback]444095[/snapback]</div>

You want to talk about hype and hypebole? How about Obama speaking in Detroit and announcing to his audience that Japanese cars average 45 mpg? Now who is living on hype, past-reputation and outright lies?(The outright lies are systematically coached at Toyota showrooms).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wiyosaya @ May 17 2007, 10:03 AM) [snapback]444095[/snapback]</div>

He is a self-confessed car dealer. What do you expect?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 17 2007, 10:17 AM) [snapback]444100[/snapback]</div>

Now we have a car dealer quoting a politician. I think this is about all I can handle.