Chasing Camry: Chevy asks dealers to put a Camry in the showroom to sell Malibus

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mpgFanatic @ May 17 2007, 09:19 AM) [snapback]444102[/snapback]</div>

Go into a Toyota showroom today and ask them about GM, ford and toyota and who is helping the US economy and where they are made. I have done it in three states and received almost the exact same response. Maybe it is just a coincidence. It was just a coincidence also that over 100,000 US autoworkers have been let go in the last 18 months too.

 

Ya still don't get it. While, some probably are, MOST here are NOT rooting for the demise of GM and cheering on Toyota. We are simply fans of efficiency and reduction/removal of oil usage in our daily lives, which seems to be heresy to GM management.

Toyota = Boo, hiss, foreign, profit oriented.
Prius = Yeah!! best car available on the market.

GM= Go US! Make a profit!
GM cars = Aveo? Cobalt? Yuck! Please offer me something that compares or beats the Prius and I'll be in the showroom.

Unless you keep berating your potential customers and accusing them of killing America. Then you can shove your cars up your tailpipe.
One heck of a sales pitch you got goin in this thread. Just shows that GM hubrus follows the trickle down theory within the organization.

Yet, I'll STILL buy a Volt, from YOU, if you are the first one that can offer a plug in. I don't care so much about the car company, I care about the car I'm spending my money on, and even more about the fuel it uses. I could care less about Camry v Malibu, or Tacoma V Sierra.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wiyosaya @ May 17 2007, 10:03 AM) [snapback]444095[/snapback]</div>

By the way people... Anecdotal evidence doesn't prove or support anything.

Case in point... My wife's Prius, with 2,600 miles on it, left her stranded for a week, 700 miles from home and required the replacement of the inverter. Therefore, that is proof that Toyota quality sucks.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ May 17 2007, 09:22 AM) [snapback]444108[/snapback]</div>

I understand and respect on many levels your decision to buy a Prius. But again the real sales numbers and the real flow of dollars out of this country are with those segments you couldn't care less about. toyota sold and delivered 2.4 million vehicles in the US last year that were not Priuses.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ May 17 2007, 09:51 AM) [snapback]444088[/snapback]</div>

I never said that Toyota doesn't have a truck heavy lineup, I understand that they want to sell vehicles to everyone in every market. That is why they have such a variety of vehicles, no matter what kind of car you want Toyota has a car / truck for you and they will be more then happy to sell you that vehicle and take your money, but it doesn't change the fact that everyone I know likes to hold onto their Toyota's for 6 or 7 years before they even think about trading in where most people I know who drive Chevy's can't wait until they can afford to get rid of them.

Back to the trucks everyone knows that the big money is in the truck / SUV market, which is why every "luxury" brand has at least one SUV. Because most SUV's retail in the $30,000 +. And I also understand that alot of people need trucks and SUV's because a car isn't suitable for their needs. Here is what your problem is because the domestic's dominate the Large vehicle market. It isn't even close the F150's and Silverado's http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/...37/article.html both outsold the Camry (the best selling car last year), there has never been a competitive import in the Full size truck market until the Tundra, I think they are even racing them in the nascar truck series. But 200,000 Tundra's seems to make a pretty nice dent in getting in the door.

And another reason that cars are back I wasn't going to spend $80 to fill my Explorer which was in tip top shape, In the Prius I am only spending about $25 a week to drive it about 500 miles. That extra $55 a week makes for a pretty large chunk of payment plus I get the lower car insurance for the Prius.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(morpheusx @ May 17 2007, 09:29 AM) [snapback]444116[/snapback]</div>

On the Tundra, toyota is teetering on disaster. They have $3000 in incentives right now on a truck that is three months old. To hit hte 200,000 target they need to average 17,000 a month. To date they have not even been close. It is early yet, but they may have a disaster on their hands.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 17 2007, 09:42 AM) [snapback]444137[/snapback]</div>

I'm glad the Tundra is failing. It's a behemoth and a dinosaur and should be outlawed unless you or your business can show a reason to own it. I hope it fails and cost Toyota a lot of $$$$. Maybe that will make then reconsider what cars they but on the market. Same goes for GM.

Coming in late to the discussion this has probably been answered. What is the main cause for Tundra's failure? Is it that people are not buying large trucks anymore? or simply that there are trucks people like better? If I read the news correctly all trucks sales are down, so is Toyota loosing market share with their new tundra or are all trucks loosing an equal amount?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SomervillePrius @ May 17 2007, 09:59 AM) [snapback]444146[/snapback]</div>

Truck sales are down, but not relative to the Toyota sales numbers.
The reasons are many in my opinion:

Brand loyalty, geography of truck buyers, Japanese vs American, marketing and finally the truck missed the mark.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(freke70 @ May 17 2007, 09:18 AM) [snapback]444069[/snapback]</div>

Just curious- do you troll on the GM owners forums and tell them how stupid they are for buying GM, and how they'll get "stranded" if they buy a GM product?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 17 2007, 10:09 AM) [snapback]444151[/snapback]</div>

ding, ding, ding!!!!
or wasting time trying to convince a blue blooded farm owner to buy a Prius instead of the truck he actually needs?

 

malorn, can you please address my specific technical questions? 10 minutes with one of your techs and you should have the answers.

Nate

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ May 17 2007, 11:36 AM) [snapback]444222[/snapback]</div>

Ok. I am in a meeting right now, but I will have it by 1pm central time.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ May 16 2007, 04:33 PM) [snapback]443696[/snapback]</div>

this is what you want?

 

Malorn, you still haven’t answered my questions:

Has GM designed a car specifically for the Japanese market? You mentioned a right-hand drive Cavalier. Sorry, that’s not a car specifically designed for the Japanese market.


What cars does GM make that gets at least EPA 35 mpg combined? I already know the answer, but I would like to hear it from you.

I’ve got a new one, should I buy a Saturn Vue from you? I ask because the V-6 engine is made by Honda and you were complaining about the Japanese importing all the important parts like engines and transaxles and only doing assembly in the US. Honda builds the engine in Ohio BTW.

How do the domestic parts content trends look? It seems to me that the Japanese and Koreans are moving more parts and car manufacturing to the US while GM and Ford are running for the borders as fast as they can. Show me the numbers?

Per the American Automotive Labeling Act in order for a vehicle to be label “American Made†it must have 75% of it’s content made in the US or Canada. (I don’t know why the US Congress considers parts built in Canada “American Made†but I’m just a little guy, what do I know)

Here is an interesting list of “American Made†Imports:
Toyota: Corolla, Camry, Avalon, Sienna, Tundra,
Honda: Civic, Accord, Element, Odyssey, Ridgeline, Pilot

Some GM vehicles that don’t meet the “American Made†label:

Equinox, HHR (41%), Impala, Tahoe, Suburban (67%)

Take heart, if Congress included Mexicans as Americans like they do Canadians, those GM models would be almost 100% “American Madeâ€.

(The new Ford Fusion is only 30%)

Why is it that I should feel bad that my car might be made by Japanese instead of Mexicans, or Canadians, or Koreans? What do you have against the Japanese anyway?

 

No, he has a problem with people buying anything other than the cars he sells. You can't blame him, though. It's hard not to be biased towards the brand you sell. I just don't see why he wastes his time on a hybrid site that GM doesn't compete with. Why not go to other car forums where non hybrid drivers chat? Tundra website? I know there is an Acura website, there's many others.

I'm sure he's unhappy with the downturn in truck sales and sale in general, but harping at people who mostly want a PHEV to buy American is counterproductive. The "downturn" will only worsen in the long run as Americans move towards greater efficiency, and bitching about it won't change that. The Volt WILL.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 17 2007, 10:42 AM) [snapback]444137[/snapback]</div>

So by definition of having incentives classifies a vehicle as failing then I guess the silverado is suffering an even bigger fate. Straight from Chevrolet.com

http://www.chevrolet.com/specialoffers/ind...p;regionoption=

 

There is nothing wrong with the American auto workers. In fact, Toyota gets such good build quality from its Americans that if you buy a Camry in Japan, it is likely built in Kentucky.

Overall, Toyota considers their American workers to have a better work ethic, and are much easier to train to spot problems and think for themselves. I heard this from a Toyota rep when I went to school to learn to fix Toyotas.

Did I mention my Camry is built in USA?

Nate

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ May 17 2007, 11:36 AM) [snapback]444222[/snapback]</div>

Nate,

The new Silverado is much easier to change fluid on if it is on a hoist. The transmission needs to be lowered to replace the reaar main seal. The turn lights are not amber.

My question to you is why does Toyota still use timing chains(belts) that need to be replaced at 60,000 miles and why does not every Toyota come equipped with daytime running lights?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 17 2007, 03:50 PM) [snapback]444408[/snapback]</div>

I think your question about rubber timing belts vs. chains is valid (though I don't know what percentage of Toyotas or GM automobiles use either). I believe that timing belts actually contribute less internal friction, which makes for a slightly more efficient engine. But, yes, a well designed timing chain (and a QUALITY tensioner) can last the life of the engine.

But...that said, chains do have a tendency to wear over time...as they do, the valve timing gradually gets funky...and, since the chain is supposed to last "for a lifetime" and isn't a maintenance item, it's often a big mystery why the engine just doesn't run as well or consistently as it used to...

I'm sorry to say, but DRL's are one of things I notice most on GM vehicles...usually, because one has burned out. I see this with alarming frequency, even on what appears to be an otherwise nearly new vehicle (I've been noticing a lot of burned out tail lights on new VW's, too but that's another story). I'm curious how many people actually pay to have DRL's replaced when they fail...versus just letting 'em both burn out and forgetting about them.

And, since there's no State or Federally mandated inspection, intended primarily to make sure that they remain functional, I suspect the DRL thing is primarily a marketing effort.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ May 17 2007, 02:50 PM) [snapback]444408[/snapback]</div>

Specific Questions/ Comments:

1. Does the rear diff have a drain plug? Not a plate, but a plug.
2. Can the rear diff now come out and be serviced in a vice (modular design) or are all the bearings and such still part of the axle housing?
3. Understood about the transmission. There's no way around it. The question is, must the engine oil pan or engine crankshaft be loosened to replace the rear main, or does it pound in from behind? (better design).
4. Last year I think GM had all Amber on the (truck/suv) turn signals. They looked great, and were easy to spot in hectic traffic. Why are they gone? I refuse to drive a car with integrated brake and turn signals, they are downright hazardous. It can't be to save money; you need the integration module and a ton of plastic anyway, so why integrate?
5. Timing belts use inherently less energy to drive a cam than a chain. Durability is the tradeoff. Not a big deal as long as there is no interference (valve reliefs carved into the top of the piston to allow the engine to freewheel). Service intervals have been extended to 100,000 on some timing belts, just so long as they don't age, so 6 year/ 100,000 miles is reasonable.
6. Shame on Toyota for not including DRL's on every car they sell. Hats off to GM for showing the way forward on this one. Since they are required in Canada, the automaker can save a few $$ by only having one harness on all their cars for North America.

Nate