Chevrolet Volt tops Sierra Club ranking of plug-in hybrids

The Atkinson cycle should, by now be availible on the Volt, it is not.

DBCassidy

 

It will be the GM bean counters that will make a stand for the Volt. This will flow upward to the board members and the CEO. These ARE the facts whether you like yhem or not.

DBCassidy

 

Let' not forget GM, at the time of Gen1, GM was dissing the Prius, saying there's no market for hybrids.

Funny how times have changed.

DBCassidy

 

Yes, GM needs to sell SUVs and trucks to make a PROFIT. Isn't that the reason they are in business, or is it something else?

Be thankful for for the SUV and truck sales (profit centers). Without them, the Volt would be in very deep water (red ink).

DBCassidy

 

I know, GM can start making buggy whips!!!

DBCassidy

 

You are missing the boat entirely. The Volt has to be redesigned to go from the "niche" market to "mainstream" market. Price reduction in the redesigned Volt will appeal to the masses. Once this is done, Volt sales numbers will climb at a faster rate.

DBCassidy

 

Who are "the many people are calling for", where are they located?, what is their income level?. What you are sayng is so vague, it does not hold water. Me and my fellow Prius never been contacted by GM (either by mail, internet, or phone) concerning any survey(s) on the Volt.

DBCassidy

 

could have, would have, should have, - I seeing a lot of underlying frustration concerning the Volt versus Prius.

Fact: Toyota started selling the Prius @ 2001. Where was the Volt? This is the frustration, GM blew it, now they are trying to catch up. This is nothing new for GM, however the global sales of the Prius (regular and PIP) are the market dominators. The pressure on GM is huge, to increase not only U.S. sales, but also global sales of the Volt.

Bottom line: timing is everything and Prius = profits, Volt = ???

DBCassidy

 

According to Wikipedia.org, Toyota has sold 35,000 Prius Plugins globally as of June 30, 2013. Their detailed data show some national sales numbers are only available up to March, 2013 but even if you projected those sales rates forward 2-3 months it would only add a few hundred extra sales.

According to Wikipedia, GM has sold over 50,000 Volts & Amperas globally. It has sold well over 35,000 during the same time that the Prius Plugin has been available. The Volt has continued to sell at a stronger rate than the Prius Plugin in recent months.

We also know that GM has manufactured over 80,000 production Volts and Amperas so those sales numbers may be lagging a bit or may not include some fleet sales.

Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Global sales 35,000 June 2013.....
Toyota's initial global sales goal was to sell more than 60,000 Prius PHV a year, with Japan as the main market and aiming for 40,000 units, two-thirds of the carmaker's global sales goal.[85] During its first year in the market, a total of 27,181 Prius PHVs were sold worldwide,[86] ranking as the second most sold plug-in electric car during 2012.[22] As of April 2013, the Prius Plug-in Hybrid is the world's third best selling plug-in electric car, after the Nissan Leaf and the Volt/Ampera family.[23] Global sales passed 35,000 units through the end of June 2013.[16]

See also:

Chevrolet Volt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

I completely agree that a 2nd generation model that maintains its basic architectural design while lowering the price by several thousand dollars will likely sell better. That's true of any car and is basic economics.

None of this is surprising. It's always been clear that the Volt's basic design approach was centered on the expectation that batteries were going to see a surge of innovation and cost reduction that would enable broader sales over the coming decade much like $10,000 42 inch flat panel screens were once expensive but are now relatively cheap and widespread.

This is something that happens over an arc of time. You design a new product for capabilities that are just emerging and then over time that new product category expands as component prices drop.

The issue with John is that he keeps insisting that GM has to re-architect the Volt to use a smaller battery pack and use a blended powertrain like a Prius Plugin or Ford Energi.

John keeps harping on the Volt but he really is pushing for something else that is not a Volt. If John had been in charge a decade ago, he might have cancelled flat panel TV engineering because they weren't instantly mainstream enough and instead insisted on building more models of big boxy projection sets.

I like my flat panel TV! I'm glad he wasn't in charge.

 

Offsetting the $7,500 tax-credit will only maintain current pricing. Delivering a profitable high-volume vehicle is a greater challenge than most people realize.

No matter how many times I say GM needs to offer a second model, that the one-size-fits-all approach has serious shortcomings, you instead hear that? Wow!

BUSINESS DIVERSITY isn't rocket science.

Please take a class about economics. You are someone I could have constructive discussions with... if purpose is correctly acknowledged. There isn't an effort to kill the current Volt; the effort to get a choice for the masses.

 

Okay, so that I can know definitively what you are proposing, please write down the basic specs for this second car that you think GM should build.

 

I know this is addressed to John, but I wonder why not build this with ~30-mile ev range: Chevrolet Volt tops Sierra Club ranking of plug-in hybrids | Page 12 | PriusChat

 

And what isn't diverse about GM's line up?

For that matter, how long did it take Toyota to diversify the Prius line up?

eAssist may be hybrid in name only, but it has potential as a low cost boost for efficiency across multiple models. What pulls it down is the weight of GM's vehicles which tend to top the scales in nearly all classes. The company isn't blind to this, and is investing carbon fiber and aluminum. Hopefully we'll see weight reduction in the next round of redesigns.

They have expanded the cylinder deactivation to the V6 in the Silverado, and both new engines will be direct injection.
They are bringing out a 3 cylinder engine for the smaller cars.
There also the diesel Cruze to give diesel fans a choice outside the German brands.
The Spark EV is one of the most efficient BEV available, and out ranges the Leaf. Hopefully it will be available outside the west coast in the future.

No big news about hybrid offering, but no other automaker has the hybrid line up like Toyota. I could bring up the rumor of a hybrid Cruze, but you'll just trot out the OPUD line whenever someone brings up future Volt or GM hybrid plans. So, what's the point.

 

Do you mean an EREV with 30mile range (i.e. take some batteries out of the volt) or do you mean a blended PHEV.

Reducing the battery to 30miles from 38 would save, at best, 21% of the cost of the pack, though realistically it would be much smaller saving as its mostly the labor cost for the battery not the materials. But even assuming 21%, if the internal cost for the 38mile battery pack is 6K it would only save about 1200. Since they would have added costs for manging the option, process/procedures for maintenance and not likely realize the full "relative" savings, its more it would save $400-600. Its something but not a major savings. Getting costs out in terms of production costs are probably more important.


GM is either #1 or #2 in sales, so clearly they have choices for many different markets. Maybe some people are just threatened and projecting negativity , potentially subconsciously, because toyota is no longer the fuel efficiency leader for hybrids and has virtually nothing going on in the EV world. Thus they like to throw FUD about lack of choices to try to smear the leader.

 

What's the rush? We didn't get a Prius wagon until the third generation.

Right now, GM is likely more focused on improving the Volt and bringing down its price. Supposedly, it is possible to rearrange the pack that is already in the Volt to allow seating for 5. If so, GM was likely being conservative in the layout for thermal mangement and possibly collisions.

We might see 5 seats in the next generation. In which case, I think we'll see the Volt wagon soon after. $ seats wouldn't acceptable in a people/cargo mover like a wagon. I don't think they'll lower range to 30mile to make it, because the voltec design gets better overall results with the longer EV range, and their customers will want the longer range. That body shape is going to lower range and efficiency to begin with.

There was a rumor of a blended PHV Cruze with 20 mile range, and there is a Cruze hatch/wagon available overseas though.

 

NO, we are not talking about reducing the Volt's 38 EV-mile. I think the SUV would likely get less than the Volt and ~30+ would be good or GM can put a slightly larger battery in it to match the Volt.

Also, a longer ev range has nothing to do with leading. I posted the other day what leading is: Chevrolet Volt tops Sierra Club ranking of plug-in hybrids | Page 12 | PriusChat

 

Ah a 25-30 AER range SUV (with 4wd) then I agree that coudl help. It is what I'm hoping for next. The way the Outlander PHEV is selling in Japan I expect it will be a hit hear.

 

Gm: too little, too late.

DBCassidy

 

"too little, too slowly"was the concern expressed by the auto-taskforce when the bankruptcy recovery was being planned and throughout the years that followed. We were assured there was nothing to worry about. Now all we get is a stream of excuses without any plan.

Neither Two-Mode and BAS/eAssist were able to reach beyond initial rollout. What makes this effort with Volt different? We see small cars and diesel as the current push from GM. How does a hybrid offering fit into the mix now?

The clock is ticking. When the $7,500 tax-credit expires, that difference must be made up for by GM... since even with it, the main complaint is price is still too high and no profit is being made. Many people, especially some participating on this thread, forget that traditional vehicles are the true competition. GM is competing with itself.