chrysler jumps in

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by taggart, Sep 23, 2008.

  1. JSH

    JSH Senior Member

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    Per the article one of the following will be available in 2010:
    EV sports car
    40 mile PHEV Minivan
    40 mile PHEV Jeep

    The GEM is not the focus of the article.

    My guess is the sports car since Chrysler mentions that lotus may help build the car. (Lotus is Telsa's source for their roadster chassis)
    Add in Telsa's talk of working to license their EV powertrain to major OEM's and you get a Chrysler version of the roadster with bold new styling.
    It is also interesting that Chrysler is shopping around for someone to sell the Viper brand to which leaves an opening for a new halo car.
     
  2. Wiyosaya

    Wiyosaya Member

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    Chrysler unveils 3 electric car prototyes - one to be produced in 2010

    Full article.

    Thanks to this site.
     
  3. JayCizzo

    JayCizzo New Member

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    Re: Chrysler unveils 3 electric car prototyes - one to be produced in 2010

    Wow!!! 480 lb-ft of torque from 0 RPM. :eek:
     
  4. dwreed3rd

    dwreed3rd New Member

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    Re: Chrysler unveils 3 electric car prototyes - one to be produced in 2010

    F.Y.I. Unlike an ICE that requires rotation and combustion to generate torque, an electic motor generates torque without rotation of the motor. The torque is developed by the magnetic field and exists from 0 rpm. It's the torque created by the magnetic field that turns the rotor in an electric motor, where as, it's the rotation of the camshaft powered by the fuel ignitions every 2 or 4 cycles that generate the torque in an ICE.
     
  5. jelloslug

    jelloslug It buffed right out!

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    Re: Chrysler unveils 3 electric car prototyes - one to be produced in 2010

    FYI Electric motors don't create torque, they react to it. ;)
     
  6. dwreed3rd

    dwreed3rd New Member

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    Re: Chrysler unveils 3 electric car prototyes - one to be produced in 2010


    Calculating Torque:
    Torque is the force that produces rotation. It causes an object to rotate. Torque consist of a force acting on distance. Torque, like work, is measured in pound-feet (lb-ft). However, torque, unlike work, may exist even though no movement occurs.


    To calculate torque, apply this formula:

    T = F x D

    T = torque (in lb-ft)
    F = force (in lb)
    D = distance (in ft)

    Example: What is the torque produced by a 60 lb force pushing on a 3' lever arm?

    T = F x D
    T = 60 x 3
    T = 180 lb ft

    The ELECTRIC MOTOR: Here and Now

    Electric motors convert electrical energy into mechanical motion and are broadly classified into two different categories: DC (Direct Current) and AC (Alternating Current). Within these categories are numerous types, each offering unique abilities that suit them well for specific applications. In most cases, regardless of type, electric motors consist of a stator (stationary field) and a rotor (the rotating field or armature) and operate through the interaction of magnetic flux and electric current to produce rotational speed
    and torque.



     
  7. JayCizzo

    JayCizzo New Member

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    Re: Chrysler unveils 3 electric car prototyes - one to be produced in 2010

    Understand, but that is an astounding amount of torque for a small sports car. I imagine you could break an axle quite easily without some sort of torque limiter.
     
  8. SomervillePrius

    SomervillePrius New Member

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    Re: Chrysler unveils 3 electric car prototyes - one to be produced in 2010

    To me the Dodge EV looks like a repackaged Tesla. I saw pictures somewhere comparing them.

    I'm sure this will be the first car delivered as that means chrysler doesn't have to design anything. The other cars (the ones I care about) are, I'm sure, many years out.

    I don't think Chrylser can get a plug-in hybrid on the road that fast and the dodge EV will be sold in limited numbers.

    To bad as the size of the other two cars are what my family need.


    /Robert
     
  9. Danny

    Danny Admin/Founder
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    Merged threads.
     
  10. dwreed3rd

    dwreed3rd New Member

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    Re: Chrysler unveils 3 electric car prototyes - one to be produced in 2010

    Without googling supporting references, I believe that torque produced by an electric motor is pretty much there from 0 rpm as opposed to an ICE that has to be rotating to develop torque and has a sweet spot. I remember many, cannot remember any specific, reviews of EVs with impressive acceleration rates. A high torque rating is common for an electric motor vehicle. Even your electric golf carts have a quicker acceleration than ones with an ICE.
     
  11. GeekEV

    GeekEV Member

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    Me. That's who. It's COOL! :)
     
  12. dwreed3rd

    dwreed3rd New Member

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    I'd say most single young male adults, not teenagers, who's testosterone is probably at it peak. It was in the sixties for me. My '67 Cougar XR7, 390cu.in., Holley 4 barrell. Wouldn't it be nice if they had a green option too, to get it out of their system!
     
  13. jelloslug

    jelloslug It buffed right out!

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    Re: Chrysler unveils 3 electric car prototyes - one to be produced in 2010

    Sorry, but I designed electric motors for over 10 years. Electric motors react to torque by drawing current. If it were the other way around a motor would draw max current all the time regardless of load.
     
  14. dwreed3rd

    dwreed3rd New Member

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    So you do not consider the electric windings, throught which the current flows, in the electric motor, that generates the magnetic field, that produces the Force that gerenates the Torque (T = F x Distance (in ft)), that turns the rotor, part of the electric motor? What is the mechanical assembly, that produces the force, that generates the torque, called in the electric motor that you designed? I'm just courious. Is it an attachment, since it isn't considered part of your electric motor.
     
  15. jelloslug

    jelloslug It buffed right out!

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    The formulas you stated are correct but an electric motor simply does not make torque, it reacts to torque being applied to the armature (rotor) by either drawing enough current to stabilize the RPM at a given voltage or it stalls. You cannot turn on a motor and set it to run at 20 ft/lbs. Like I said before if motors made torque all the time then they would draw full current all the time. They do not function this way at all though. Any motor will draw a certain amount of current with nothing physically attached to it because there are still friction and windage losses that are loading the motor.
     
  16. dwreed3rd

    dwreed3rd New Member

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    I'm not trying to be dense. Perhaps it's terminology, but I don't see where you answered my question. What generates the force that accounts for the torque that turns the rotor. Are you saying the torque is not a force, as defined in the equation T=FxD.
     
  17. jelloslug

    jelloslug It buffed right out!

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    In an unloaded situation it's friction, gravity, and windage losses (windages losses being the grease in the bearings, the air turbulence over the armature, the eddy current and hysteresis losses from the magnetic interpolation, and other things). In a loaded situation it's all of the previous items plus the load applied to the motor.
     
  18. dwreed3rd

    dwreed3rd New Member

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    Toyota Prius - 2009 Performance & Specifications
    Electric Motor Torque295-lb.-ft. @ 0-1200 rpm (400 N·m @ 0-1200 rpm)

    Chrysler Unveils 3 Electric Car Prototypes, One to Be Produced in 2010 : TreeHugger

    Dodge EV

    Based on the Lotus Europa S, the Dodge EV prototype is an electric rear-wheel-drive sports car. The electric-drive system consists of a 200 kW (268 hp) electric motor that can generate a huge 480 lb-ft of torque pretty much from 0 RPM, a 26 kWh lithium-ion battery pack and an integrated power controller.


    So let me see if I understand. Any of the references that imply the electric vehicle or motor produces a torque rating such as the formulas that I posted or the links above are in error. An electric motor does not produce torque as stated in the equation.
    The current though the windings that generates the magnetic field whos force F, that pushes and/or pulls against the magnets, at distance D, along the radius of the armature, that results in Torque T, which considered a twisting force on the rotor; This action and reaction of forces cannot be considered as producing torque.
    How is it that an engine that uses fuel, that fires in an internal combustion engine, to generate the force, that pushes the piston, that turns the camshaft can be considered to produce or develop torque, but a motor that uses current in, an electrical winding to, to produce the force, that pushes the magnets, that turns the rotor, not be considered to develop or product torque.

    I'm still confused. I don't see how it matters, what produces the force, or how it changes the facts or the physics or the equations that quantity torque. The equation, that you said was correct, specifically use the term "produce rotational speed and torque".

    I must not be able to see the forest for the trees. I'm really not this stupid. I must be missing something. A basic assumption somewhere.

    Internal Combustion Engines have torque ratings but an electric motor can't.

    :noidea:
     
  19. jelloslug

    jelloslug It buffed right out!

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    Well it's much easier to say "A motor generate "x" amount of torque" rather than "A motor can react to "x" of torque with out stalling". I'm not saying that torque is not a proper (or rather an accepted) measurement for a motor, it's just that it's technically incorrect.
     
  20. dwreed3rd

    dwreed3rd New Member

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    Now that makes sense. Thank you! I appreciate your willingness to stick with me until you found the right brick" to explain it. :brick:

    My original post was intended to help clarify to a poster, that seemed to think there was a problem with the Dogde EV torque rating of
    . This was the post
    I could have misread the post. It wouldnt be the first time I missed a meaning. I thought he had a problem with the zero rpm. I wanted to point out the the torque curve for an electric motor is alltogether different than an ICE. If I understand correctly, the torque curve may actually be at it's maximum torque at 0 rpm, and therefore rated at 0 rpm, unlike an ICE, which usually has it's maximum torque, at a sweetspot somewhere above 1000 rpm, at which it is rated. And also the torque on and electric motor is more even over a wider range of rpm, whereas the torque for an ICE tends to drop off quickly on either side of the sweetspot.

    Anyway, thanks again for the clarification. :)
     
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