1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Coasting to a stop

Discussion in 'Other Cars' started by bwilson4web, Feb 19, 2022.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,122
    15,388
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    One of the 'hyper miler' techniques is to coast to a stop. A manual transmission clutch makes this trivial. However, automatic transmission and electronically controlled shifters can be more challenging. But how does it work on a real world course?

    Here is one of my favorite test loops:
    upload_2022-2-19_4-16-50.png
    There are four possible traffic stop locations:
    • peak - up slope approaching and down slope after stop. This works for coasting because the kinetic energy approaching brings the car to a stop with maximum potential energy. On the backside, the potential energy returns as kinetic energy.
    • halfway down - the down slope increases the car velocity requiring braking and/or regenerative energy capture. Once stopped, the continued down slope helps accelerate the car. Regardless, the down slope potential energy to a stop requires active energy capture.
    • bottom - the car potential energy requires energy storage or brake shoe heating. Then taking off, the car has to add energy for both kinetic and potential energy. This is the worst case.
    • halfway up - the slope allows coasting to a stop. But resuming speed require energy for both kinetic and potential energy.
    So only one case, stopping at the local peak is energy efficient without storage or brake shoe heating. The other cases to a greater or lessor extent gain little by coasting to a stop.

    I have easy access to this test loop and can easily run the benchmarks. Do we need to do this exercise when the physics and math indicate there is only one case, stopping at the peak, saves significant energy?

    The easy solution is to use one-pedal driving with regenerative braking. Descending an 8% grade with the foot off the pedals, the Tesla will slow to a stop. The captured energy is available to accelerate the car.

    Bob Wilson
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  2. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,491
    14,100
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I have always hated having to stop at the bottom of a hill and then accelerate back up the next one.
     
    bwilson4web and Trollbait like this.
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,122
    15,388
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Regen is your wallet‘a friend.

    Bob Wilson
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  4. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    3,528
    1,241
    1
    Location:
    NY
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Have you run the circuit in the opposite direction? In a perfect world it might be possible to have 3 stops with an overall gain in kinetic energy going in the opposite direction.

    On another note I've tried to determine the difference in energy needed to mount an incline as is gained in regen descending. Eyeballing the stock gauges available it looks to me to be close to a 4:1 ratio and not really a scientific study. Plus, the Model 3 looks to have more aggressive regenerative capabilities, since the "Blue Bobs" will slow to a stop of an 8% grade, than both the Honda Civic Hybrid and the Prius Prime I've used in my observations.
    Besides, I wouldn't know how to calculate the dynamics of speed ascending in one direction and descending in the other direction unless I could get the exact speed duplicated in both directions.
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,122
    15,388
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Basic physics:
    • KE = 1/2 * m * (v * v)
    • PE = m * g * h
    Bob Wilson