Code P0A80 + P3013 All Battery Cells reading good! Any thoughts?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by vcvtrading, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. vcvtrading

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    I know this a Camry and not a Prius... (but hoping good folks here can help!)
    2007 Camry Hybrid. 160k trouble free miles. About 3 months ago started getting the dreaded check VST system, and all warning lights. Scanned with code reader and got P0A80 (replace battery pack). I was able to reset the code and drive car for a few days until it coded again, reset and repeat. Then last week I got a new code, P3013 ("battery block 3 becomes weak"). Also, for the first time I heard the hybrid battery fan kick on (I've never once heard it kick on before). The fan would run until I turned off the car or reset the codes.

    This morning I removed the traction battery and opened it up. I removed all of the copper bus bars and noticed some corrosion (but what I would expect to see after 10 years). (see pic). I tested each cell. Most of them tested out at 7.90v. A few at 7.88, and one at 7.69. (nothing below 7.69). All cells look good, no leakage, no bulging, all nice and clean.

    Can anyone offer any advice before I put everything back together? I do plan to clean the copper bars and all of the nuts. Oh, the 12v battery in the car is the ORIGINAL Panasonic battery (if you can believe that). It was went down a few times (I tend to let the car sit for long periods, I travel a lot). I use a battery tender on the 12v battery and it is still working fine (or so I think). Could the 12v battery cause code P0A80? Could this be the culprit all along?

    Thanks for any help!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    In a word, yes.

    Remember, all the computers that are making this judgement on your hybrid battery (and how to use it) are running on that 12v battery. If they don't have a stable power supply, they might make a mistake. Or two.
     
  3. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    While you have the battery out, set up a spreadsheet with all the voltages for future reference... Also get a 50w 12v headlight bulb (non-LED) and hook it up to each of the 28 modules for 2 minutes and record the voltage loss on the spread sheet. I suspect you'll find a bad module in block #3, but maybe not. The cooling fan going on is from the pack getting hot because a cell inside a module is starting to fail.

    And while you're in there, inspect the 14 voltage sensing wires for corrosion, especially where they plug into the hybrid battery ECU, I've often seen corrosion in that plug lead to a short circuit. If there's significant corrosion in that system all new voltage sensors and bus bars for that side of that pack is called "Wire, Frame" and Toyota dealers sell it for only $50, though many corrupt stealerships jack that price up to $90 cause they're greedy and don't care about customer loyalty.
     
  4. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    IMO, no. An old 2007 HV battery sitting for months unused especially in the heat is the most likely reason for HV battery codes. But YES change the 12v too.

    GOOD LUCK!
     
    #4 fotomoto, Jul 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  5. vcvtrading

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    Sounds good... I'll try the 50w bulb resistance test. In recording the voltage loss, do I focus on the voltage after the 2-mins and/or while the bulb is burning? The "wire, frame" you mentioned, this sounds interesting. Does it include the entire wiring harness with the 14 leads? I will inspect mine closer. I did see some corrosion on several of the 14 leads where they connect to the bus bars. I am also thinking about buying all new bus bars, rather than cleaning mine. I guess I could clean mine, but if I can get new one's at a decent price I might just go that route.
     
  6. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Rock tumbler is the most efficient way to clean bus bars, but you need lots of bus bars to do that efficiently... And yes, wire frame comes wit everything, just not the bus bars on the other side, not the nuts... And yes, record the voltage at the 2 minute mark while the bulb is still burning. If you can't find the bad module this way, then put the pack in and wait till it heats up and the fan starts spinning then use a thermal imaging camera to find the module that's heating the pack up and replace it.
     
  7. vcvtrading

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    Great info.. thank you! One more question.. Do you know which way the banks run on the Camry pack? For example, if I am looking for the pair that makes up bank #3, what side of the battery would I start counting from?
     
  8. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Main negative cable connects to module #1 and main positive cable connects to module #28, or I guess in a Camry it would be module #34?
     
  9. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    No, absolutely not!

    You have a bad cell in the hybrid battery. This is not a false reading caused by a weak 12 volt battery. That
    just does not happen.

    I have never bothered to confirm which way the count runs on a Camry. :eek: If you're going to do a proper rebuild and condition and test all the modules there is just no need to know. I suspect that your module with a resting voltage of 7.69 volts is the bad one. Is it the 5th or 6th module from either end? Measuring the resting voltage of a module is really not "testing" them. In my experience a module that is .2 volts below the rest of an umolested pack is in the early stages of failure. If you keep driving with the failed module it will rest at 6.XX volts and be an obvious failure. The two end modules do tend to run .1 volts below the rest and this is not an indication of a problem. A light bulb load test will confirm which module has failed.

    At a minimum you have to replace the failed module.
     
  10. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Hey, he said "could" not "is"... :sneaky:
     
  11. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    So the less you know about what you're doing or how the pack functions is something you don't need to know? That's crazy talk!!!

    Also, there's a dozen ways to hunt down a bad module before it goes bad and as you point out modules with self-discharge voltages lower than other modules is one way to do that, but there's lots of other ways too, but maybe that's also something you think you don't need to know to do a proper job?
     
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  12. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    Start the counting from where the battery ECU is positioned (same way for a gen1).
     
  13. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Actually they likely changed that after Gen1, if that was even the case in Gen 1? It's based on how electrons flow out of the pack:

    Module #1 starts furthest away from ECU picking up ~8v more after each module... But it is indeed confusing... But if you think about it... #1 module negative thru #28 module positive is the flow of the DC electrical current / electrons coming out of a Prius pack... There's so much more to it than that and I'm too tired to explain right now. But if you think I'm wrong then post some valid proof...
     
  14. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    1. For me, I'd go ahead and replaced all the module pairs in bank 3(but you could do only one of the two modules in that bank, if you don't have money to buy two modules)
    2. Load test the other modules, just in case when you couple back, other banks don't come "dancing around".
    3. My concerns sometimes is after replacing modules, you may have to go back replacing modules. Might be better getting newer modules and swapped in there completely, or get another pack.
     
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  15. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    A pack I worked on near a month ago replaced the bad module and the module on both sides of that module... While I don't know if that's the best way to do it, that particular pack had really good numbers on its spreadsheet... So I'll call you on your two module theory and raise you another module. Hopefully someone will help clarify where this bet is going?
     
  16. ILuvMyPriusToo

    ILuvMyPriusToo Active Member

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    You just can't escape some things in life: death, taxes and eventually replacing all the modules with new ones . . .
     
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  17. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    You are missing the point. While pulling and replacing one failed module is fine for a DIY approach I would never do that kind of work for someone else. When you condition and test all the modules the order of the count is moot. It just does not matter.


    The 12 volt battery being the cause of all problems is an urban legend. A few months ago ChapmanF challenged everyone to come up with one case of replacing a 12 volt battery fixing false codes. No cases could be found.
     
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  18. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Well, then I'm guilty of reinforcing it, and you've given me something new to consider.
     
  19. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Yes, understand the intent of what you were trying to say... I was simply questioning your presentation... Specifically, high voltage DC batteries send electrons from the negative end of the pack out through the positive end of the pack and its a basic fundamental that's better to explain than dismiss if you're trying to help people understand how the vehicle works.
     
  20. vcvtrading

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    2007 Hybrid Batt Data.PNG Hello Folks...(see attached numbers) I did the load test this evening on each cell. I took a new resting baseline of each cell and then used a 50w headlight bulb and took another reading on each one at exactly 2-mins. All of the cells had about the same voltage drop, except one. #6 cell had over double the drop of the other cells (as noted on the spreadsheet). Is this enough of a drop to determine cell #6 is bad? It is also worth noting I took another baseline (resting) reading of #6 cell about an hour after the load test and the voltage had recovered back up to around 7.50 volts, inline with the others. Is it normal for the voltage to climb back up while resting?
    Thank you everyone for your input! I have learned a lot! (and it's fun).
     
    #20 vcvtrading, Jul 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
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