Columbia University + Freedom of Speech

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roryjr @ Sep 23 2007, 03:42 PM) [snapback]516609[/snapback]</div>

You're missing my point entirely. I know what the constitution says and what rights it grants people, You don't need to tell me. Instead, I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of standing up and yelling about freedom of speech when a kid is escorted from a microphone for violating the conditions of an event or when someone is uninvited to an event, all while at the same time saying that we should deny someone else a chance to speak in our country because we're afraid of what he might say or how that might be used.

If you want a truly free society and to truly protect those freedoms set out for us in the Constitution and Bill of Rights, you have to offer those freedoms to everyone, including your worst enemy and your best friend. Otherwise you're just as bad as "the other guy".

Granted, the invitation didn't have to be extended - if it hadn't, nothing bad would have happened. However someone at the university thought it would be a good idea. Given that he was invited, it's really pointless for the right to be going on about how he should be uninvited, or how he shouldn't be allowed to speak or whatever. Doing anything of the sort would only prove to all of his followers that we're a corrupt, dishonest society that thinks it's better than everyone else. Heck, even talking about it in a negative light only goes to show the severe lack of diplomatic skills the right has.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 24 2007, 09:10 AM) [snapback]516829[/snapback]</div>

Oh good grief. Quit being inflammatory and do a little research.

From http://www.columbia.edu/cu/rotc/army.htm

Let's see ... the students are allowed on Columbia's campus. They just take a few classes at Fordham.

Some other information (emphasis mine) about the Army ROTC in NYC (From http://armyrotc.com/edu/fordham/about.htm):

And, just for fun, here's some information about Air Force ROTC in NYC (from http://home.manhattan.edu/~afrotc/ABOUT%20US.htm:

Gee whiz. It sure looks to me like the colleges & universities in NYC decided to make things a little easier on themselves by consolidating military education classes at host universities.

"Doesn't allow ROTC" my fanny. <_<

 

Post deleted.
EDIT: DOH! That's what I get for taking too long to compose a reply. Was making the same point a Proco (although not as well). Color me redundant.

 

There's always the possibility that anything AJ says will be used against him, as an excuse to attack Iran...

 

This is streaming live right now. Bollinger just finished his remarks (6 minutes of insults to Admanjani basically). My lunch is over though and I've gotta miss the response.
http://play.rbn.com/?url=aplive/nynyt/live...&proto=rtsp
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/...h/index.html?hp

 

I must say, Calling liberals stupid is maybe NOT the best argument as to why Dr. Evil (Ahmidlfnsdf what ever his name is) shouldn't be allowed to speak.

(70%) of Americans: "Why shouldn't the A-hole get to make his statement before we bomb his country?"

NeoCon response: Cause you America hating liberals are so stupid that when Dr. Evil says Bush sucks, you'll all cheer and vote him into office!"
(hyperbole and sarcasm intended).

From Sufferrin' Prius Envy
"You know very well that all Ahmadinejad needs to do is wave is finger at the crowd, say, "Bush is a bad man, a very bad man" . . . and as a result, half of the liberals in the audience and here on PriusChat will be nodding their heads in agreement with any thing else he has to say for the rest of the night. "

Wow. Straight out of the elementary school debate textbook.
I'm sure those America hating liberals are going to even agree on wiping Isreal off the map and that the holocasut never happened, cause they are SOOOO stupid!

 

It looks as if he made a total fool of himself:

Ahmadinejad questions 9/11, Holocaust

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ 2007 09 24 16:10) [snapback]517119[/snapback]</div>

Sounds to me like the 'give him enough rope' theory works after all.

 

I had my doubts about letting him speak at first, but Bollinger hit him with some pretty hard questions, so it seemed like a good thing over-all.

The truly disturbing thing was he (Aquavelvajad) was getting a lot of applause. (some boo's, like when he said there were no gays in Iran)

But applause! Wth

This man is truly the closest thing to Hitler the world has seen in since, well, Hitler. (Iran was an ally of Hitler)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Sep 24 2007, 04:39 PM) [snapback]517141[/snapback]</div>

Could you provide back-up for that statement? My recollection was that Iran was under Allied control during WWII. There may have been popular sympathies for Hitler, but not an outright alliance.

 

It may sound strange, but if Hitler had been allowed to speak in the US, it might have accelerated the effort to rid the world of the Nazi's just a little quicker. Lot's of children would have been saved for every day earlier the concentration camps were reached. The real advantage of "Freedom of Speech" is that the lessons delivered are often not the ones spoken.

Having Ahmadinejad speak (or in reality, not speak about what is important) needs to be seen as a really great opportunity to continue to educate the US (and the rest of the world) of the extreme propaganda that Iran is being subject to. What is really worth knowing is how most Iranians really react to this.

No one at Prius Chat, or Columbia, or the US is going to be swayed by anything he says....but a few more may now become aware of why continued efforts to get a worldwide approach to solving this Iran isolation needs to be figured out. (e.g. If Iran gets a bomb, would they use it?) These public forums do a lot to get fence sitters on the correct side of the fence. Now I know how Ahmadinejad is going to react under pressure. Useful info.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Sep 24 2007, 06:39 PM) [snapback]517141[/snapback]</div>

You do understand that as President of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is nothing more than the public face of the Iranian government. He is a powerless puppet spokesman.

Iran's true political power is head by the "Supreme Leader" who is elected by the "Assembly of Experts", a body of 86 clerics. The parliament or (Majles) are powerless because everything they do has to be approved by the Guardian Council The Guardian Council consists of 6 judges appointed by the Supreme Leader and 6 judges elected by Parliament from people nominated by the Head of the Judicial system who is appointed by the Supreme Leader. The Supreme Leader is also the Commander in Chief of the Iranian military.

All in all it turned out as I expected but Bollinger disappointed me. He greatly discredited himself and Columbia University by starting of the session with name calling and personal insults.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Sep 24 2007, 06:26 PM) [snapback]517193[/snapback]</div>

Unfortunately, Bollinger played to his base (as it were) and in so doing, created the result that would most help Ahmadinejad with his base. In the Islamic world, when you invite someone into your house, you are obligated to treat them with respect and dignity. Bollinger came off as basically an obnoxious crusader. There won't be any need to cherry pick the transcript because Bollinger did all of the insulting of his own accord.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 21 2007, 06:47 AM) [snapback]515733[/snapback]</div>

Heck, they could have invited me, or you --what's your point?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Sep 24 2007, 04:45 PM) [snapback]517145[/snapback]</div>

Here is what Wikipedia® has to say on the subject matter:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Sep 24 2007, 08:46 PM) [snapback]517246[/snapback]</div>

As I thought, Iran was like Egypt - under the boot of England but sympathizing with Adolph.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Sep 23 2007, 10:20 PM) [snapback]516763[/snapback]</div>

I wasn't aware that having an shared opinion with Ahmadinejad made me a liberal or a bad person. Many conservatives think Bush (both of them) are bad bad people. *shrug* guess some people like labels a lil too much.

 

Freedom of Speech does not mean that you have to give someone a forum to speak. Aquavelvajad could have walked up and down the streeting spouting his giberish like all the other crazy people. (what a politically incorrect post!)

Columbia treated him with more respect than he was due.

Again my concern was, why the "F" were people giving this man applause???????????

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 25 2007, 02:25 PM) [snapback]517522[/snapback]</div>

I listened to a majority of the event, and i didn't clap or cheer or even think about doing so once.

Once again, you're vastly generalizing based on very little evidence.