Congrats to the President

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by efusco, Nov 3, 2004.

  1. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Although the Kerry campaign wants to deny it, the race is clearly over. I'm certainly disappointed in the presidential results as well as my state's results. I'm trying to remain optimistic about the coming 4 years. I know the President truely cares about this country, I hope his advisors can help him avoid some of the types of errors he made during his first 4 years and bring some of the outstanding issues to resolution.

    I've enjoyed the banter on the forum during the campaign, it's an interesting cross-section we have here on PC.

    I leave you all with only one semi-bitter thought....Gas prices here dropped from $1.85/gal. on monday to $1.79/gal. on election day. I'm betting it'll be over $2/gallon by Thanksgiving....any takers?
     
  2. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    I'm afraid I can't. Not until I see a change in his attitudes. And given he equates changing one's mind with "flip flopping", I don't expect it.
    Heck, it's already over $2/gallon ... here. Has been avg $2.059 for weeks. I didn't notice the prices yesterday though. ;-)
     
  3. KMO

    KMO Member

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    Of course, you realise that you're now responsible for this guy, right? This time you voted him in of your own free will, pretty cleanly, with full knowledge of his character and track record.

    So he can now be regarded as a fair reflection of America, in a way he couldn't be up to now.
     
  4. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    People who try to suck the venom out of a snakebite argue that they are doing what they think is best with the best intentions of the victim in mind. I'm just saying that even the best of intentions performed with the most care do not always generate the most effective actions.

    I will refer to him as President Bush. He is backed by a Republican Senate and Congress. According to the news sources I've heard he received the most popular votes in election history. But the beauty of our country is that I get to openly question his every move for the next four years. And exercising my American right to do so reflects my believe in the American way of life and defines me as an American.

    Like Evan, I have enjoyed the open-air debates that have taken place on this board in the last month or so. I relish in the knowledge that we are all adults here and the personal attacks are kept to a minimum while the research of and reference to facts is maintained.

    We have not seen gasoline prices under $2.00 around these parts in quite some while. I'd move to Missouri, Evan, but I've got to stay here in Illinois and make sure it stays blue.
     
  5. LungCookie

    LungCookie New Member

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    No no no... he's only a reflection of half of America. Please don't forget that.
     
  6. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Hmmm, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Sort of like saying Tony Blair is a fair reflection of England. Certainly we will stand behind our leader, but only a very ignorant person would choose to believe that the decisions of the President reflect the actual beliefs of each individual American. There is good and bad in our form of governance and we accept that...it is true of every type of government.

    I think it's sort of like your kid brother. You can kick his nice person whenever you feel like it. You bad mouth him at will. You hide his toys and and tease him mercilessly. But the second and outsider tries to pick on him or threaten him the familial responsibility takes over and you're by his side as his prime defender.

    There's a LOT of division in the US right now, but, like with 9/11, when times are toughest we are the most united, and we're strong and there are core values that we'll defend like our kid brother.
     
  7. KMO

    KMO Member

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    Well, I think Tony Blair is a fair reflection of England. In that, at least, he is the sort of person that we vote for. That says something about our national character. And he's very unlikely to lose the 2005 election, alas. Mind you the main opposition's worse.

    I suppose I'm just a little dismayed, and quite surprised, that after 4 years of Bush, effectively only a few people in New Hampshire decided they didn't like what they saw. After all, what you got in those 4 years was certainly not what was advertised. Remember "compassionate conservatism"? The sheer amount of non-movement in the results since 2000 is quite remarkable, given everything that's happened.

    I suppose we have to tip our hats to Karl Rove and his team. They've found a national faultline - the split over guns, gays and abortions - and exploited it mercilessly. Whatever happens, that seems to trump everything in the red states. I'm not sure where you go from here. Do the Democrats give up on those issues? Stop flogging a dead horse and accept that abortion and civil unions just aren't going to happen in the USA?

    It would be nice to see them get out and fight positively for what they believe in. Clinton (somewhat), Gore and Kerry were all the defensive, Republican-lite type of democrats. That's just meant the country getting dragged to the right. Can they fight back?

    Or, as I saw one depressed person on a Dem weblog suggest - the map is now very neatly geographically split. So get a divorce! All the northeastern blue states should join Canada, the western states are big enough to be a new country, and leave the red states as the USA.

    Maybe it's not that bad, but looking at the BBC's little Flash map thing, which lets you wind back to each election since WW2, there's been an amazing shift. At one time, the whole country could swing from blue to red and back. Now the Republicans have managed to almost paralyse it. It will be interesting to see what happens next.
     
  8. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    So did the guy he beat! It means NOTHING, all spin.

    Senate (R - 55, D - 43, I - 1) and house (R - 228, D - 199, I - 1) both edged a little more in the republican majority. He sees this as a mandate from "the people" to continue on the current path. I'm sorry, but 51.4% is NOT a mandate.
     
  9. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    But certainly not of everyone. Seems there's been quite a bit of dispute over his support of Bush's efforts in Iraq.

    Frankly, I am too. I think there's a lot of fear. The Republicans successfully portray democrats as weak on defense, democrats have done a very crappy job of countering that though it's an idiotic premise. The fear of terrorism and the fact that Bush was there to 'handle it' when 9/11 happened is reassuring to many here. The latest round of commercials had a young lady who's mom died in the WTC collapse on 9/11 and how he hugged her and restored her and her father's faith. Very touching and, I think, effective to keep the suburban mother vote.

    Of course the democrats won't stop fighting, but it's going to be a very uphill battle. We lost seats in the Senate, but still have enough to resist some efforts. Major concerns now, however, are that as many as 3 supreme court seats could go to conservative judges over the next 4 years. This has far reaching implications that is beyond the average voter's consideration. There have been some 15 or so states that have passed laws or amendments banning gay marriage...if Bush chooses to pursue a constitutional amendment, judging by the huge margine those passed by and the number of states that are "red" now it would more than likely pass.

    We won't give up, but it's going to be tough. I frankly don't see a democrat back in the White House for at least 8 years, and more than likely 12. I don't see the House of Representatives going Democrat any time in the near future. The Senate could happen a little more quickly, but we're still looking at 4-6 years minimum.

    This election has huge long term implications I think we're yet to realize.
     
  10. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    Not QUITE that easy. Look at
    California
    (also Oregon and Washington). The 'east/west' split shows there too. The coastal areas voted Kerry, inland, Bush. Since most of the population centers are on the coast, the states went with Kerry. But, the majortiy ( square miles wise) would not be happy about forming a new country :)
     
  11. KMO

    KMO Member

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    Ah, but they wouldn't have far to travel. The east Californians could sneak across the border into the Confederacy under cover of darkness.
     
  12. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    *I* can't agree with you here Evan. I do not feel a familial relationship to the president of this country, no matter who s/he is.

    I don't know what percentage of the Bush voters looked no further than a single 'morality' issues such as abortion, gay marriage, etc. *I* do NOT stand behind the current (and apparently future) president of this country as *I* do not think he is 'leading' it to a positive future. Anyone who wants to rip on his policies can do so with my blessing ;-)

    I DO stand behind the men and women in the armed services he sent to Afganistan and Iraq. I also agree with your prior post that he is doing what HE thinks is right for the country. I do not doubt that he is, at heart, a good man. But, I think the voices he hears in his head are leading him astray.
     
  13. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    It is going to be a long sneak on foot as I expect a trail of head and tail lights would be easily spotted ;-) Unfortunately for them, it is mostly desert.
     
  14. betshsu

    betshsu Member

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    No! I live in a tiny blue island in the middle of a huge red state.

    Part of the reason the Dems had very little chance of gaining seats in the House is the crazy redistricting of Texas (ahem, possibly the doing of Tom Delay)--have you seen some of the Texas districts? They tried to guarantee a gain of 7 Rep seats to offset possible losses in other states, though I think they only managed 4 or 5 (one race I think is still too close to call). Considering that Travis County (where Austin is) is a Dem county, why shouldn't we have a Dem rep in the House? My district certainly doesn't anymore. Of coure, it only represents a very small fraction of Austin since we got split into 4.

    The possibility of Bush appointing 3 supreme court justices scares me.
     
  15. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    I think you misunderstand. There's a huge difference b/w supporting and agreeing. I'm not going to fall into the "I love Bush" camp by any stretch, but without some bipartisan effort to move forward the greater harm to our country would be inaction.

    I'm not trying to convince you to love Bush. But it's important that we respect the office, if not the individual, and support out country and goverment WHILE we work to change it and keep it on a short leash. Anarchy is not an acceptible alternative.
     
  16. harryg

    harryg New Member

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    Too bad, so sad, we'll have to wait another 4 years!

    Harry
     
  17. VARedDevil

    VARedDevil New Member

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    I echo Doc's sentiments concerning the Dems not giving up, and nor should they. That's what makes this country so great, is the ability to have your opinions and voice them freely. I just hope that W will lean more to companssionate conservative as he promised when he won, but before 9/11. I still that changed a lot of things. But now is the time for the country to come together, not squabble and be divided.

    **News: Kerry just called the President and conceded the election.**

    Did Bush get his mandate from the people...not hardly, 51% is not a mandate, he will need to work more with the Dems to get this country back on track.

    I'd also like to express my appreciation for the debates that happened in here leading up to the election.

    Now, let's all go out and enjoy our Prii and the fall weather.

    BTW, gas in Northern VA, is just under $2 a gal for regular...it's been vacilating between 1.65 and 1.90 for the past three - four months. Although I can still get regular for $1.86 at COSTCO, which is from what I was told by COSTCO, BP gasoline.
     
  18. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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  19. krooster1234

    krooster1234 New Member

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    I disagree with this analogy as well. I could respect and defend a kid brother, certainly, even if he made a rather large mistake. However, I don't feel I have the luxury to even BEGIN to respect our President, because of what he has done and is doing to the country that I dearly love. If anyone tries to pick on Presidnet Bush, they will have my full support. And sadly, Bush will see this win as a mandate, and people all over the world will think Americans are a bunch of ignorant fools who deserve the downward spiral that awaits us (socially and economically) if we continue on our present course.
     
  20. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    The current track was set after he didn't get a mandate, nor the majority of the popular vote, in 2000. Why do you think he will now think the track needs adjustment? If anything, getting 51% of the vote, and with the house and senate shifting more republican, will add to his belief that he does have a mandate.
     
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