Congrats to the President

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by efusco, Nov 3, 2004.

  1. VARedDevil

    VARedDevil New Member

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    I applaud you and your convictions...and I sincerely mean that. You have the deepest convictions in your beliefs and that is commendable. I sincerely do hope that you find what you're looking for.
     
  2. Sun__Tzu

    Sun__Tzu New Member

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    Well, I'm still a bit lightheaded and sick to my stomach. I'll support Bush, seeing as how he won by several million votes this time. He has the benefit of the doubt from me, for now. If he's still the same ole screwup by June 2005, all bets are off.


    "This country is too diverse, too strong to ever spiral down"
    Even the Roman Empire eventually fell. The Soviet Union, menace to the free world, rose and fell within a generation.

    Take a look at the US Dollar, as a currency. Take a look at the amount of public debt that is being held by foreigners around the world. The Saudis, Chinese, Japanese, and everyone else have a massive IOU from us, and its going to come due one day.

    Yes, the country IS diverse. For now. But if you ban gay marriage and persecute them, they're going to leave for greener pastures. If you don't think that's important, go Google the name "Alan Turing" and read a short bio of him.

    People are also fired up (as they always have been) on immigration control. Now, in addition to "keeping out undesirables" and "people who would take our jobs", we can add security concerns to the list. As a result, America will grow less diverse, and thus weaker, over time.
     
  3. LungCookie

    LungCookie New Member

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    Sorry to hear you're really doing it. We need all the help we can get, now more than ever. But I understand.

    Best of luck.
     
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Something a bit unprecedented, I think, is the anger the democrats have...probably spurred by fear of what will happen with the religious conservative right in power. It is scary. I don't think the country will fall any time soon, but all great falls start somewhere, some change in power, some change in philosophy or ideals or goals. The once universal support and united spirit for a common goal begins to fray.

    Despite the fact that page 178 of your history book described the 'golden years' of the Roman Empire and page 179 describes the Fall, there's a lot of time and history between those two pages that we often don't appreciate without much more indepth research beyond what's presented to us in our high school history class taught by the football coach.

    I try to be an optimist. I also think things tend to be cyclic and that we'll again see a shift to the left in our thinking. A democratic Pheonix will rise to bring some balance...I just hope that there aren't many, like Matthew, who abandon the cause before that day comes, or that Pheonix may find too few left to support him.

    I truely did not want nor intend for this thread to become so bitter and divisive, but that's fine that the trend went that way. I sincerely wish the best to President Bush. I'm watching, I'm taking notes, I'm not about to change my personal convictions b/c he's in office. But I'm going to do my best to facilitate a better USA and to work with my fellow republicans as best I can.

    The true irony of this victory is that I will personally benefit quite a lot--financially anyway. Maybe that extra money will come to play in 4 years to support a candidate I believe in....now we need to find one.
     
  5. pjo1966

    pjo1966 New Member

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    As a democrat, I find McCain as somebody I could get behind. I think he would be the country's best hope to be unified... just my personal opinion.
     
  6. VARedDevil

    VARedDevil New Member

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    Very well put Evan, and hopefully, everyone, once the bitterness wears off, will hold the same attitude. Whether you voted for Bush or not, he was voted in, and now we all need to work together. Rather than dwell on what could have been, let's work together to make what can be.
     
  7. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Divide & Conquer

    Only 51% of the population wanted Bush as our leader, despite the fact that incumbents during the time of war usually win by a landslide.

    As time progresses, that group will become divided. They will see how short-sighted some of his decisions were, as the costs of them continue to grow. His support will weaken.

    We may not have won this fight, but we will ultimately win the endeavor.
     
  8. victor

    victor New Member

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    Are you sure??? Never heard of the Patriot act? Say what you like, but if its against Bush the FBI will knock on your door... Perhaps.

    Its a sad day.

    So which country will he attack next? I bet on Iran withing the next 6 months.

    :(
     
  9. victor

    victor New Member

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    Even less? 51% of the votes of the 60% that voted.
     
  10. mikepaul

    mikepaul Senior Member

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    I'm going to avoid TV news for a while, since the gloaters will be out in full force.

    All I can say is: the people may have spoken, but they don't seem to have spoken wisely...

    Oh, in related 'wisely' news, to 'help keep property taxes low', the 5% sales tax will now be 6% around here. When the property taxes eventually go up anyway, will the people who voted for this think they were wise?...
     
  11. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    I seriously think it's great that this thread has gone three pages, expressed an incredible range of opinions, beliefs, and plans, but has not become a series of flames and insults.

    Did anyone other than myself see the video clip on television of Bush saying something to the affect of, "I'm proof that a C-average student can achieve things."? Around the office, I seem to be the only one. I found that out when I mentioned "another four years of C-average government" and everyone stared at me.
     
  12. LungCookie

    LungCookie New Member

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    I agree 100%, but we can't do it without the President's help. Unfortunately this administration has been nothing but divisive.

    We were never more unified than in the aftermath of 9/11. We all pulled together, and the world was on our side. Now, just three years later, we are more divided than ever and the world no longer trusts us.

    Even with the best of intentions, nothing you or I do can overcome a failure of leadership.
     
  13. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    A coworker just sent this to me. I'm not making predictions or anything, I just thought it was funny. Especially since it had been eluded to by KMO.
     
  14. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    Jimmy Carter wanted freedom from foreign oil, conservation of resources, renewable energy, the list goes on. Then good ol' boy Ronny came 'round and made everyone feel good about NOT doing any of these things! President Carter had the best ideas to come from the oval office in years. It's too bad the majority of Americans don't realize the harm that has come from ignoring that great man.
    And the saga of consume, consume, consume continues...and the eroding of civil rights, and the tax breaks for fossil fuel/the rich/corporate interests, the isolation from the rest of the world...I could go on. Please name one thing this administration has done to help ALL Americans. It can't be done.
     
  15. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

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    Just a note to VAR, Evan, everyone -- thanks for pointing me (and others) away from terminal funk and crying in my corn flakes.

    Point is, I am proud (dammit!) to be an American; and I'm going out as an American -- either on my feet, or on a stretcher. The only way I fail myself or my country is if I shut up and give up.

    So, I'll keep being informed, and keep listening and discussing issues to get as close to the truth as I can. I'll keep giving my wishes to my elected officials, whether they listen or not -- because if everyone who voted for Kerry did that, you'd see some serious backing and filling.

    I'm going to try to get people into office who I think would be smart and good leaders, through contributions of time and money.

    In short, for this country, I'm showing up, I'm doing the homework, and I'm doing the work. Maybe things'll get better; maybe they won't. But if they don't, it won't be on account of me.

    I'm not giving up on this country.
     
  16. Sun__Tzu

    Sun__Tzu New Member

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    Hahaha! Thanks Tony, that map is going out to all my friends : )

    On a not-so-funny note:
    Debt Ceiling Must be Raised.
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=223596
    Boy, that's a good sign. Unfortunately, I plan on being alive at least another 50 years, so all this stuff might actually come due before I die.
     
  17. jkash

    jkash Member

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    You put in words exactly how I was feeling today. I am very worried about the direction the country is going in. With no election to run for in the next four years, I think the gloves of the far-right come off and we may be see a lot of new legislation that dictates how people live their lives. I can see the amendment outlawing gay marriage coming up again, as well as prayer in public schools, drilling in the Alaska, and Roe v. Wade has a very good chance of being overturned. Seems to me like we may be turning the hands of the clock back say some 50 years.

    At least Barack Obama won last night.

    I'm sure this feeling of dread will wear off after time, or at least until the first push banning hybrid cars comes out. :wink:
     
  18. Oxygene

    Oxygene New Member

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    Some thoughts on why Kerry lost:

    The democrats overestimated the extent of the radicalization of the American population. Had they been more in touch with mainstream America, rather than with Hollywood and academia, they would have distanced themselves from Michael Moore, instead of embracing him. I think Mr. Moore played a huge role in this election, but not in the direction he would have liked. Many have reservations about Bush, but don't subscribe to the irrational hatred and paranoid fantasies (concentration camps for gays and blacks, police state tactics, massive disenfranchisement of minority voters, establishment of a fundamentalist christian theocracy, etc...) of the far left and lunatic fringe. Perhaps seeing Osama bin Laden using Moore's talking points in the recent videotape repelled them, though I think most people knew who they were going to vote for months ago.

    John Edwards. He brought absolutely nothing to the Kerry ticket, and was unable even to deliver his home state. His wife's comments about the Cheney's perhaps being ashamed of their daughter repulsed many.

    The swift boat veterans ads effectively pointing out the consequences of Kerry's false testimony concerning alledged American atrocities and war crimes on American POWs.

    I am elated that Bush won. I am also very impressed with the dignity of Kerry's concession.

    To the poster who is leaving the USA because we have become a theocracy (I believe he or she is the same one who called Bush "the voice of evil in the world" a few months ago,) you don't know what a theocracy is. On my street live baptists, evangelicals, catholics, hindus, atheists and muslims. They worship or don't worship freely and as they see fit, without fear. You slander the people and government of the United States with your statements. Perhaps your travels abroad will take you to a real theocracy like Iran and you will unlearn your fantasies of persecution.
     
  19. Canuck

    Canuck Member

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    Ah, the token Canadian, joining in to the discussion uninvited.
    Ladies and Gentlemen, we have all vented our political preferences, ( I intentionally did not taken a side ((as it is not "my dog in the fight")).
    My only concern is that the government of the United States does not realize how important is their connection with the rest world... be it trade, cooperation in civil rights, defending religious freedom, a greener world, and all the extremely important issues. To keep looking at your own belly button ( with it's ring insert) and hoping the rest of the world will follow in lock-step is folly. You must include the rest of civilization otherwise you will copy those "Atom Bomb" visions of the 50's wherein some neighbo(u)rs had bomb shelters and defended themselves against those that did not. Kind of sounds like the way we treat our "Street Friends".
    I congratulate all of you because I think it was a true democratic election and I know you will all support your elected President.
    Gary
    Oxygene: Maybe we missed something up here but the information we received was that Kerry did not relate any US atrocities that he had witnessed in Viet Nam but related those he had been told about. I, honestly, would appreciate a non political reference.
    Another question I would ask is ... President Bush was a qualified fighter pilot and I have never read that anyone questions that. A very small percentage of us ever learn to fly a high speed fighter jet aircraft. He obviously earned his wings. Doesn't that take considerable courage and capability?
    IMHO being a politician in this day and age requires SQUAT except very few exceptions.
     
  20. KMO

    KMO Member

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    So, can anyone come up with a rational explanation for Bush's 300,000 majority in Florida, compared to all the polls and exit polling? As I understand it, it was the only state where the votes seriously mismatched the polls, with about a 6% swing.

    It seems most likely to me that the machines were rigged. I think that's a fair assumption. Otherwise they wouldn't have fought tooth and nail to prevent any form of verification.

    But the tragic fact is that even if they did fit a proper paper trail, as some have suggested may be done for the next election, would anyone count it? If the machines came up with a 300,000 majority again, would they be allowed to count the paper ballots? I bet there would be a court ruling that a paper count wouldn't be allowed, and the paper votes would be destroyed. The paper votes can effectively be nullified by programming the machines to not make the result close.

    My biggest horror would be if these "voting machine" manufacturers managed to sell their machines to our government. Here we use a paper-and-pencil to vote, and I trust it. I could never accept a vote like Florida in my own land.

    I don't see why you lot seem to be so accepting of it. There is no reason whatsoever to trust that result. Imagine if we ran our paper system like that:

    One of the candidates passes a law saying you have to "outsource" the voting system. One of his brother's appointees pay millions to a firm. The firm gives the state a sealed ballot box they can't open. All the voters stick their ballot papers into the ballot box. The firm takes the box away. They come back and tell you a result. They never return or let you open the box.

    This is faith-based election.
     
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