Congrats to the President

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by efusco, Nov 3, 2004.

  1. Sun__Tzu

    Sun__Tzu New Member

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    And yes, my first reaction was also: "boy, we must really be out of touch with the mainstream. We got trounced in the House, Senate AND the popular vote."

    But wait a second: most of the House gains came from the TX redistricting.

    The Senate seats were largely fought in solid Red states. With a 19 Blue - 31 Red state split (DC is disenfranchised), it shouldn't be shocking to have only 44 seats.

    And the final popular vote tally was 51-48%. Worrisome, but hardly a landslide. Its pretty tough to say that 48% of people are "out of the mainstream."
     
  2. Danny

    Danny Admin/Founder
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    An update concerning the young voter turnout.

    According to Rockthevote.org, it was the highest turnout percentage since 1972, at least 20.9 million Americans under 30 voted on November 2nd (4.6 million more than in 2000) and young people were especially active in battleground states.

    2000 Youth Turnout: 42.3% voted
    2004 Youth Turnout: 51.6% voted

    Almost 9 % points is a pretty significant jump in my estimation.
     
  3. VARedDevil

    VARedDevil New Member

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    However, remember in that 48%, there we are lot of people that voted for Kerry just because they hated Bush, not because they liked, agreed with, or wanted Kerry. This was a high ranking Democrat that admitted that in order for the Dems to do better, they have to get more in touch with mainstream America.
     
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Yea, but in the 51% there were a lot that voted for Bush out of fear about terrorism, fear about war, ignorance about our foreign policy and just b/c he's the incumbant.

    Balance will return to universe...Trust in the Force, Luke!!
     
  5. bigbaldcuban

    bigbaldcuban New Member

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    That cuts both ways Sr. DiabloRojo. I know several people here in Bushland that automatically trashed all of the Dem. nominees just because they weren't Republicans.
     
  6. VARedDevil

    VARedDevil New Member

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    That's been in every election...there are many, many people that don't vote the person, but vote the party...no matter who the cadidates are, they will vote all Dem or all Repub. That's happened forever. This is the first election that I can remember where people didn't vote for someone because they believed in them and their policies, but hated the other person so much...I would have liked to have seen what this election would have looked like if we had, and I know I'm going to get flamed for this, a legitimate third party in this country.
     
  7. bigbaldcuban

    bigbaldcuban New Member

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    I voted for Perot in 92 and Nader in 2000. I wholeheartedly agree
     
  8. Danny

    Danny Admin/Founder
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  9. Gurmail

    Gurmail Member

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    The article kindly shared by Danny and the posts by others, as well as other media articles seem to wrongly suggest that all one has to do to move to Canada is apply. Unfortunately, immigration to Canada is only open to some select highly qualified professionals with a lot of education, qualifications and experience. An average person cannot just move there. For all the people posting that they are moving/would move, the US does not have any treaty with ANY country allowing US citizens to go live, work or move to ANY other country, not even Canada :( If you happen to be a doctor, experienced computer scientist etc, perhaps. Not if you are working as a cashier at the local grocery store. If anybody knows any better, please enlighten me.
     
  10. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    So....what're they paying doctors in Vancouver anyway?
     
  11. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

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    Evan,

    The pay in California is better and we are a solidly blue state as long as you stay close to the coast and north of Orange County (well, with the exception of the Gubernator).

    :wink:
     
  12. VARedDevil

    VARedDevil New Member

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    That doesn't sound like a solidly blue state, more like solidly selected blue areas.... 8)
     
  13. jchu

    jchu New Member

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    What gets me is the verbiage being used based on the exit polls that I've been hearing. The media reports that I have heard state that when the War in Iraq or the economy were the most important issues the voter highly favored Kerry. When "morals" were the issues, they went for Bush.

    This statement implies that as a group the Kerry supporters are either immoral or amoral. However, as an avowed Democrat (in a severely red state) I take issue with this implication. I believe we are very moral people. 1) I believe in equality of all; Gay "Marriage" aside, at the very least recognition of civil unions with equal inheritance rights, rights to make medical decisions for life partners, partner insurance coverage similar to that of married couples; and off of the Gay thing, a working minimum wage (at the current mimimum wage one has to work a 60 hour week just to reach the poverty level). 2) I believe in religious diversity whereas it sure feels like we are getting a single religeous point of view crammed down our throats by the current administration. 3) I believe in our moral responsibility to good stewardship of the environment; that this is the true meaning of dominion over the Earth. Not to use it and abuse it solely for personal gains. 4) I believe in our responsibilty to the less fortunate of this world and support aide those in need both foreign and domestic. 5) I believe that it is immoral to impose our beliefs on others at the point of a gun. This does not mean that we cannot defend ourselves but there are limits to how far this goes and remains justified.

    George Bush does NOT have a monopoly on morality, just a different set of morals. Now as part of the loyal opposition it is our moral duty to remind our government that we are a pluralistic society not a monotheistic theocracy and that is our strength. One foreign journalist noted after the election that what he sees happening here feels hauntingly similar to transitions that some of the currently more radical islamic nations went through!


    Addendum: Just one more moral point 6) I believe that GOOD health care is a RIGHT not a priviledege. There are just so many issue but I'll try not to keep rambling

    Jon Chu, MD
     
  14. VARedDevil

    VARedDevil New Member

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    First off, don't believe the exit polls. Every single network admitted they screwed the pooch by listening to the exit polls. They all have since admitted that the polls were slanted in who were asked. Primarily, they asked women, who voted more for Kerry, they asked younger people, who voted more for Kerry, etc...every single network said that the exit polls were totally off this time.

    Secondly, having a belief in God and having traditional values does not make this a theocracy. There are too many diverse faiths in this country to ever be a theocracy. The same-sex marriage issue is not what lost the election for Kerry (he, by the way, was also against same-sex marriage, so he wouldn't have been the "savior" on that issue that everyone seems to keep beating their chests about. The only thing Kerry was against, was a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriages...he believes the states should decide, which by the way, so does Chaney. And on that point, the people of those states, those that had the issues on the ballots, along with others that have already enacted DOMA, have overwhelmingly voice their dissent against same-sex marriages.)

    The election is over. Let's move on. If you're not a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem.
     
  15. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

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    An eleven plus percentage points margin and a raw vote count advantage of well over a million votes, is pretty solid in my book.

    :p
     
  16. jchu

    jchu New Member

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    VAR...,

    Being part of the solution means making sure that all voices are heard and that the minority remains protected from the tyranny of the majority. Without, this we would never have had civil rights or a woman's right to vote.
     
  17. VARedDevil

    VARedDevil New Member

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    No argument out of me on that point. But that's exactly what I meant. The election is over...time to move forward. Being in the majority doesn't make it a tyranny, it makes it the majority, and in most cases, the majority rules, that's not a tyranny, but rather heeding to the wishes of the majority.
     
  18. metamatic

    metamatic Member

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    People fear the unknown. Similarly, the only way the Cold War could be sustained was by preventing regular contact between ordinary Russians and ordinary Americans.

    If overnight, it became possible to see who was gay or bi, you'd find people in 'red' states having to do a lot of mental readjustment, as they suddenly found out how many people they knew weren't straight.

    You'd also likely find out that most of the particularly virulent homophobes were gay, of course.
     
  19. Canuck

    Canuck Member

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    VARedevil and others: may I suggest we all move on, leave politics to other web sites, and lets get back to the reason why we have all gathered here. I cannot believe the anger and hatred I have observed on this forum , it is not my nature to be so cruel in the retorts I've observed. If some of you feel this is not my place to make such remarks I know you will inform me and I will accept that and move on.
    :|
    Gary
     
  20. VARedDevil

    VARedDevil New Member

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    You have every right to say what you feel Canuck...that's what's so great about this country. Actually, I do disagree with your comment about the cruel retorts. I've thought that the posts, for the most part, have been very civil. But you are right...and like I've stated also...time to move on.
     
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