considering a 2002 w/ 73k miles for $8K, thoughts?

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by rocketrob, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. rocketrob

    rocketrob Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    104
    12
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    My local dealer is offering a 2002 MY with 73,000 miles for ~$8,000. Looking for any insight from folks more knowledgable about 1st gens. I own a 2nd Gen, I'm shopping for affordable wheels for my gf.

    I did a VIN lookup on the toyota owners website (nice!) and it only returns 3 service records.

    (1) 42K miles, new 12V battery

    (2) 67K miles, warranty steering work -- "INSPECT POWER STEERING GEAR AND REPLACE THE PINION SHAFT ~|~2001-2003 MODEL YEAR PRIUS VEHICLES REPLACEMENT OF ELECTRIC POWER STEERING (EPS) PINION SHAFT NUTS ~|~* ~|~67541 PERFORMED BOG CAMPAIGN.RACK LOT#066183(RT FRONT TIE ROD ADJUSTING NUT & END WAS LOOSE)STEERING WHEEL TURNING FORCE WITH SST @25 INCH LB BOTH DIRECTIONS.PINION NUTS WERE NOT LOOSE.REPLACED PINION NUTS.PINION PRELOAD @12 INCH LBS.TOTAL PRELOAD @18 INC"

    and the last ...
    (3) 71k miles, check engine light for "P3191 ENGINE DOES NOT START, P3101 ENGIGINE SYSTEM STICKY THROTLE BODY". Dealer cleaned a throttle body and noted an oil leak on the timing chain cover. Also performed overdue 60K service; plugs, coolant, and transaxle.

    Are these common issues on 1st Gens? What's "BOG Campaign" mean? Any other major TSBs and/or Recalls that i should be aware of?

    Any advice or insight is appreciated. Thanks!

    edit: This post is excellent.
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    23,369
    13,170
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL with 2014 BMW i3-REx
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Price seems a little high but such things are negotiable. But I'm more concerned about the new driver.

    When on the highway, is her speed:
    • little below speed limit - best for Prius
    • at speed limit - still good for Prius
    • with traffic - above 65 mph, Ok but not so good
    • faster than traffic, complains about being passed - Uh Oh! Look for a diesel
    How does she view things technical:
    • already calculates MPG from the gas receipts - excellent!
    • owns power or battery hand tools - hummm, keep her!
    • owns more than one screw driver, a hammer, and a saw - nice, keep her
    • knows ON/OFF, pays for oil changes and all maintenance - hummm, you know your job
    • 'does this light mean anything?' - Uh Oh! Look for a Chevy PoS!
    Bob Wilson
     
    GrGramps likes this.
  3. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    5,814
    3,502
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    I would avoid all Gen1's unless you know what you are doing. Price does seem high, but Prii prices are crazy high this summer and will probably stay so until gas goes down.

    And just to comment on Bob's post about speed, sure the Prius may not net 50mpg or 60mpg if driven "normally", but it will get better than almost anything else on the road. Cheaper to run and maintain than a diesel. No filters to clean/replace for the exhaust. And all the US diesel options are generally unreliable used vehicles and expensive to repair out of warranty which the used versions generally are. We have 3 hybrids in our household in addition to other vehicles.

    The 2006 Prius gets over 50mpg average with mixed city/highway driving. When we drive it across country or even into deep ski country at 80mph to 100mph (yes the Prius goes triple digit speeds) the average is still in the 40's, usually 45mpg or so. That is excellent and very few vehicles will get that at that speed. The Prius is aerodynamic.

    The 2013 Prius C we just bought (with 11 miles on the clock) gets driven 100miles a day by my sister. She drives 80mph to 90mph, more than 90% highway. It is about 2 miles from the house to the interstate onramp and about 2 miles from the interstate offramp to university parking lot. She drives it like any other car, accelerating briskly and braking harshly. She is getting 46mpg. The first weekend we bought it and drove it around town, she was getting 65mpg average over about 100miles. But 46mpg again is something most cars can't touch.

    The 2012 Lexus RX450h is also driven a lot on the highway at high speeds (80mph+) but a lot more city driving too. It averages 28mpg which is the combined EPA and excellent for a vehicle of the size.

    So even if you drive with traffic and don't care, you will still get mileage better than most vehicles on the road with almost no maintenance.

    Back to your GenI, I would skip it. The GenII (2004-2009) have so many improvements over the GenI and really they are had for not much more. The GenI battery is also a weakpoint. The internal cells are inferior and there are quite a few cases of corroded bus bars inside the pack which will lead to an eventual failure. These issues were addressed in the GenII. The GenII also feels much more powerful than GenI, a lot more refined on the inside, and a lot more bells and whistles. I personally feel that the GenI at this point is more of a hobbiest and collector vehicle at this point. I wouldn't give it to someone with 0 mechanical knowledge as a daily driver for many years.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  4. rocketrob

    rocketrob Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    104
    12
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II

    Great reply! got me laughing.

    wrt highway travel, she's a 75 mph california girl, does the MPG gas receipt thing at my behest, and enjoys trending miles-per-fillup on the Trip A odo.

    A reasonably priced, low-mileage Prius is actually my second choice, my first would be a early 2000's Corolla.

    Somewhat irrelevant but related: I'm looking to replace the '98 corolla she currently drives. At 136K miles it burns oil due to bad valve seals. It requires a quart or two added between oil changes which is not ideal but manageable. I might keep it for myself.
     
  5. rocketrob

    rocketrob Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    104
    12
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    re: 2k1Toaster ... Are you collecting Toyota Hybrids? :D

    But seriously, it's awesome that you can own and compare the various hybrid models. Speaking of hybrids (real shocker on a prius forum), today I test drove a Ford C-Max just for kicks. It is a fine automobile. Smooth, quiet, handles well, has decent pep, and all other good things you can say about almost any brand-spankin' new car.

    I liked the size of the C-max, roomier inside than a Prius V and it stood proud on the road like a good American SUV. Fuelly reports gas mileage of ~40 mpg, short of the sticker advertised 47mpg. Note this isn't the plug-in 'Energi' model i'm talking about. I wasn't thrilled about the "Ford Sync powered by Microsoft" MFD-type thing. Why are Microsoft interfaces always the worst?

    Anyways, I appreciate your advice. You're right that Gen 1 probably isn't the best choice for my situation.
     
  6. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    5,814
    3,502
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    We like cars :) Also have a Tacoma and a couple of Rav4's in the current "armada" and lots of previous RX's (RX300, RX350, RX400h) and other collector vehicles and "race" vehicles.

    I'm confused about your car type and price range. A small 12 year old Prius Gen1 versus a brand new gigantic SUV-esque vehicle 4 times the price.

    Also not sure how you get roomier inside in the C than V. The C is heavier than the V, but the V is bigger.

    Front Leg Room: 41.3 in. in the Prius V vs. 40.4 in. in the C-Max
    Rear Leg Room: 35.9 in. in the Prius V vs. 36.5 in. in the C-Max
    Cargo Capacity: 34.3 cu-ft in the Prius V vs. 24.5 cu-ft in the C-Max

    The V is also more aerodynamic and the 1.8L Atkinson is much more efficient so without playing games the V will almost always net better average mpg than the C-Max and that is what real world numbers are showing and what car testing agencies/magazines are showing.

    The 62mph electric mode in the C-Max is pretty cool, but rather useless. Great for showing off to passengers though! :)

    There are lots of vehicles out there and if you are looking in the sub $30K range, then just go buy a normal Prius hatchback and be done with it. The Ford Escape hybrid or the Toyota Highlander Hybrid would be good choices if looking for SUVs, used at that price range. The HiHi is essentially the RX with a different badge and trims and is a great vehicle.

    If you like the Fords, great. But personally I don't go there. I stick with the people that know what they are doing, Toyota and Honda. Rare and/or classic vehicles excepting obviously. :)
     
  7. rocketrob

    rocketrob Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    104
    12
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Driving the C-Max was for a different person/reason than what started this thread. Sorry, I should have made that more clear. Fords aren't really my thing either.

    The C-Max has better headroom, which is an important dimension for a tall person like myself. As you pointed out, the V is more aerodynamic. That means lower to the ground. (and when you just say "C" I think Pruis C!)

    Kinda how I feel too. Yeah, so you can hit 62mph in electric-only, but only when the battery has sufficient SOC, which probably drops quick once you're actually going 62mph. Then it's back to Hybrid mode. It's actual usage is seems quite limited.
     
  8. stevemcelroy

    stevemcelroy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    873
    192
    0
    Location:
    Boulder, CO
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Paying 8k for an 11 year old car is not something that I would do. I know the values/prices of used cars are still quite high which just might lead me to buy a Nissan Versa S if I needed an inexpensive car.

    You mention that your first choice is a Corolla of that same vintage. Have you thought about a Chevy Prizm or Pontiac Vibe - these are the GM versions of the Corolla and Matrix?
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    23,369
    13,170
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL with 2014 BMW i3-REx
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    You reminded me of our first Prius purchase:
    It was October 2005 and we had just lost our commuting Camry:
    • $17,000 - found via eBay, ~$1,000 under Kelly Blue Book value
    • 49,000 miles . . . had remaining 60k and 100k warranties
    • 2003 Prius . . . still in service, my commuting car
    At the time, new Prius NHW20 were selling with a $2-3,000 mark up in Alabama with a waiting list. We had bought a 2001 Echo new, $14,000. Both were compact cars and I only got 39 MPG on my first leg from Fort Worth TX to Shreveport LA. And then it became my hobby car.

    I agree that for $8,000, you should be able to find nice NHW20 (2004-09) and would recommend expanding the search using Ebay (what I used.) Plot the completed sales prices vs years and remember:
    • Good, Fast, Cheap - pick two
    Give yourself 4-6 weeks to watch the car market. With Ebay, I had to have my credit card 'pre-approved' before I could bid or make a deposit offer. I also worked out my financing from the Credit Union.

    If her car is not 'dead yet' and still allowed on the streets, patiently search and let her into the process. I would not give up on the NHW11, prices are negotiable, but agree it makes sense to open up the search window.

    Bob Wilson
     
    Merkey likes this.
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    23,369
    13,170
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL with 2014 BMW i3-REx
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Dated, I made this chart for Jason when he sold his NHW20 Prius:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Don't forget that there are warranty 'step' functions.

    Bob Wilson
     
    Merkey, 2k1Toaster and rocketrob like this.
  11. slimfrancis

    slimfrancis Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    188
    34
    0
    Location:
    New Haven, CT
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    I

    hello! i have an 02' prius w/ 69k miles - runs & drives excellent. i'm selling for $6800
    and i also have an 02' w/ 42k miles - runs and drives excellent (w/ rebuild battery modules from 2008 & 2009) i'm selling for $7800. both are dark blue w/ grey interior. let me know if you're interested?
     
    bwilson4web and Merkey like this.
  12. rocketrob

    rocketrob Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    104
    12
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    re: slimfrancis


    Thanks for your offer. Unfortunately we're on opposite coasts, plus I prefer california cars when buying used.
     
    slimfrancis likes this.
  13. slimfrancis

    slimfrancis Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    188
    34
    0
    Location:
    New Haven, CT
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    I
    understandable rob! both are completely rust free and have been stored in a garage. clean carfax histories, no accidents, one owner vehicles. i can send you detailed pics and a video of both vehicles. for an additional $650 i'd have one delivered to your door.
     
  14. rocketrob

    rocketrob Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    104
    12
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Update: I think I found a great 1-owner 2005 Prius, package 6, with only ~105,000 miles for $8500. Seems like a good deal, no?

    The downfalls for '05 that I'm aware of are no backup camera and no auxillary audio jack.

    Are there any particular issues with the 2005's that I should be aware of? Sometimes model year changeovers can bring with it some mechanical issues ...

    Thanks.
     
  15. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    5,814
    3,502
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    The 2005 models have a more "plasticy" interior than the 2006-2009. Also the non-nav versions have lower resolution MFD's that I find off putting after years of using my 2006 Prius and various Lexus models all with the higher resolution screen.

    2005 does not have bluetooth for audio streaming or hands free. Since you are in California, I believe you have mandatory hands free cell usage, no?

    Some models of 2005 do not have the auto-dimming rear view mirror which can be annoying at night. Luckily the hatch design puts the split right where the majority of SUV's have their headlights.

    The 2005 and 2004 models with HID use D2R instead of D4R bulbs which is better because they shine brighter for longer, but is bad for disposal because they contain mercury. My retrofit in my 2006 uses D2S bulbs.

    Only the Package 4 and Package 6A models have VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) whereas in 2006+ Packages 4 through 8 have it standard.

    Mechanically, there is no difference that makes any difference. 2006 was the trim upgrade year, or depending on how you look at it the segregation of options to make people buy higher packages for things that were in lower packages before. They did the same thing in the GenIII switch and the GenIII mid-model change.
     
  16. rocketrob

    rocketrob Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    104
    12
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    The one I'm looking at has leather interior and Nav.

    So, Bluetooth supports audio streaming from, say, an iPhone? Yes, Cali has the handsfree law. :rolleyes: I choose not to talk while driving regardless of handsfree. That's the safest bet.

    I'm not familiar with the different HID bulbs. Thanks.

    Great info. Thanks!
     
  17. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    5,814
    3,502
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Then you are looking at a Package 6A assuming the leather is a port installed option and not an aftermarket option after purchase. It has the dimming mirror and VSC.


    It supports the A2DP protocol which all Android and Windows Mobile devices support natively in all versions since the protocol was released. If you are runinng iOS 3 or greater, then you should support A2DP as well. I do not have the bluetooth option in my Prius but I use a little bluetooth dongle plugged into the aux port in the center console. This gives me BBC R1 and GPS through the car stereo which is ideal. The 2005, as you have already noted, does not have an aux port.


    No problem. Your 6A will have HIDs. You might want to readup on this at some point: Not all HID Bulbs are created equal | PriusChat






    You're welcome!
     
  18. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    9,325
    6,845
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    It should be no problem to add an aux audio input using the DICE iPod thingy sold here in the PriusChat Shop. I had to do a little tweaking to make it work in my NHW11 (which it does not list as supported), but in an NHW20 it ought to be plug-n-play.

    -Chap
     
  19. aperry1971

    aperry1971 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    25
    3
    0
    Location:
    mass
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    here is my useless 2 cents.... I just bought a 2002 with 71k for 5K in new England.....I believe that was a good price...
     
  20. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    5,814
    3,502
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Glad you like the vehicle and hope it lasts you a long time.

    However the pre-2004 models are absolutely nothing like the 2004+ models. The GenI was essentially the beta test, and Toyota fixed tons of things with that learning experience. They are still great cars, but some small details can cause big issues if not tended to.
     
Loading...