Considering Leaf as our 2nd vehicle

Discussion in 'Nissan/Infiniti Hybrids and EVs' started by markabele, Nov 8, 2016.

  1. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Someone on the Leaf forum was questioning whether something had been reset on it (BMS I think)...since it was a full 12 and 30k miles built in Jan 2013 and used in a warmish climate (St Louis)
     
  2. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    Yep, that has happened where a dealer resets the BMS and it "looks" like a full 12 bars. Buyer beware. Really the only way I know of to test battery capacity, etc. is with a wifi or bluetooth dongle on the OBD port and either LeafStat or LeafSpy (iPhone apps). Or the more dubious test of driving to zero (car stops!), then charge up to full and measure the kWh you got from the wall.

    On the topic of 2nd car...There would be a lot of instances where a used Leaf would make an excellent 2nd car in a 2-car household. There's no downside to using the right tool for the right job. Closer, 'regional' travel with a Leaf. Longer, out of region travel for hybrids or Teslas.
     
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  3. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    I purchased a new OBDII and will use LeafSpy to tell.
     
  4. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Well, we pulled the trigger and got a 2015 Leaf over the weekend. I'm in awe at what a great vehicle you can get for the price. Let me know if you have any questions, but I highly recommend it as a second complementing car to a Prius.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    congrats!
    is there a typical expected loss of capacity at 30k? are all plug ins subject to similar %?
     
  6. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    I hear 5% annual thrown around on the Leaf forums. Obviously a little more in hotter climates and less in cooler or more temperate climates.
    I think a general rule of thumb is that you will most likely have a little lower degradation annually the larger the battery is. I saw a recent study on Teslas that show most of them still have well above 90% 100k-200k into life.
    On the 2015 Leaf we bought LeafSpy is showing 97% left. But the odometer is less than 10k as well.
     
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  7. NR427

    NR427 Member

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    My 2015 is already down to 85% with 9,500 miles. I found out it was down to 92% when I bought it over a year ago.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how does that translate to real world miles on a regular commute?
     
  9. NR427

    NR427 Member

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    I had about 60 miles of range in ideal conditions. About 40 in cold or bad weather.
     
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  10. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    As you know from owning a PiP, so many variables. With all the right conditions I don't think 100 miles is unreasonable at slower highway speeds. 120+ should be doable if it's slower around traffic and great weather I would think. Again, just bought it a few days ago and it will mainly be my wife's car. So it may take a while for me to truly learn it.
    Compare it to your PiP...what is your average miles/kwh around town? I would guess it's 5-6. The Leaf has 21 usable kwh.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i guess my question is: compared to the epa number when new, how much degradation in miles after 30k.
    for instance, i'm at 30k now in ev miles, and have lost about 1 1/2 miles of range.
     
  12. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Lots of variables go into degradation as well. Age, miles, battery temps, speed you drive at, how many quick charges, climate you live in. The climate you live in is obviously the most important. The very best batteries are being seen in the Pacific Northwest due to their steady low temperate climate. The worst are seen in states like Arizona. So you want to check where your battery came from if buying used. Mine came from Georgia, which isn't ideal, but oddly almost all used Leaf's around here come from GA so I didn't have much of a choice. Age can matter as much as or more than mileage can. Have seen some fabulous 2013's and some crappy 2015's though. Total stab in the dark, but I would guess most Leaf's see anywhere from 10-20% total degradation after 30k. Total guess though, there are far more educated (although more biased) opinions over at the Leaf forum.
     
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  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    thanks man, i can see why plug in's depreciate so rapidly. it's almost like you're buying a different car, and there is risk involved as well.
     
  14. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    True, but buying a used Leaf at these prices is basically protecting yourself from much of the downside. And, honestly, if gas prices skyrocket, we could see a super rare situation where a vehicle appreciates, or at least holds steady.
     
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  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    agreed, we all could.
     
  16. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Was looking into used Leaf as our second car... but seeing a comment that it has range to close to my regular daily commute (~37miles), I guess, it is not for me. Sigh.
     
  17. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Is that round trip or one way?
     
  18. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Round trip, but I have no charger at work, and also I sometimes run errand during a day, so I will definitely need at least 50 miles of range even during middle of winter when the temp get sub zero. I am worried about comment that 3 years old leaf is loosing quite bit of range and especially in winter, there may not be long enough range for me.
     
  19. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Correct, a first gen Leaf may be cutting it pretty close in the winter for you. A 2016 or 2017 with a 30kWh pack should be enough for you, though. No idea how used prices are on those, but I'm guessing they should be coming down nicely considering some are coming off lease soon, plus the new 40kWh is probably driving the 30's down.
     
  20. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yeah, I found a few 2015 Leaf on used car lot, and exploring the idea. With my current location, there are absolutely no public charge stations around. BEV with limited range is not going to work. Beside, with Prime as our current main vehicle, if I add an another BEV as a second car, I will have to install a new power line to supply L2 charger. It will end-up costing more than conventional car or hybrid. In fact buying another Prime might be the most economical route.
     
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