Consumer Reports initial test of Model S in winter chills

as I suspected no data.. just a lot of huffing and puffing.. and I'm still waiting on the stats from the Leaf and Tesla websites. and I bet I'll still be waiting....

what is battery degradation by year?
what is range loss by temp and hour after unplugging?

 

"With 240 miles on the car's range indicator, I figured there would be more than ample juice to cover the distance, plus some nighttime errands, the morning drop-off at school, and then my 75-mile return trip to the track."

No, no, no. If one is someplace where one can charge (which is pretty much anywhere), one charges. Don't run it like it is a gas car. Try to keep those batteries as near optimum charge as one can.

 

In general I agree with you.
However, in this case he is sort of testing it for CR and, not messing up the tracking CR is most likely doing to monitor the energy used to charge the car.

As a general rule, if an EV owner is somewhere he can plug in, he should.

 

In which case, he should SPECIFICALLY mention that this was intended as endurance testing, and that real users should follow the paradigm I stated.

 

if you're buying a battery with wheels on it.. the manufacturer should provide the stats. I'm sure they have them.. but for internal use only

agreed that's the paradigm. evs are commuter cars.. plug them in every night.

it's obviously not a road trip

 

I was driving next to a new Model S 2 days ago in NOVA. Great looking car.

 

Interesting! I hate to think of Virginia annual property taxes on a car like that, at least where I live. Do you think it had VA plates?

 

Here is a start for you.

http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/energystorage/pdfs/51474.pdf

 

I"m not sure if it had Va plates. I was too busy ogling the design and stunned to see one in rush hour traffic. It was headed west on Rt 7 toward Round Hill.

 

batter performance info needs to be provided to the consumer on the sticker upfront. you're essentially buying a battery (as it's only source of power) so battery performance is more important than 0-60 in 4 secs.

my guess is Tesla and Leaf have this info (or at least projections) but are not going to release it for obvious reasons.

until that happens you're going to have continuing confusion on the part of consumers (that's evident from reading the Tesla forums) and there is no one to blame except for the EV car makers.

 

Do you mean a sticker like this ?

 

no a sticker like this:

Range loss:
ie.
7 hours 55% at 30 F 30% at 70 F
8 hours 60% at 30 F 35% at 70 F etc... etc..

Range est by year:
ie year one.
est range 240.
year 2 range 210
year 3 range 190 etc.. etc.

the sticker needs to address

1. est range by year.
2. range loss by hour and temp when unplugged. (especially range loss in cold weather which the NYT reporter commented on)


.

 

What methodology would you propose to arrive at these estimates? The battery manufacturer's, the vehicle manufacter's, the EPA's, the DOE's ?

Tesla warranties the battery for 8 years, 100,000 miles.

 

Those numbers are highly variable based on how the car is driven and charged.
There are a number of studies on this, however, it is a new way of designing a car and with little history, we mainly have to go by computer models.
Those have led Tesla to state they expect battery degradation of no more than 30% over 8 years (this is from memory, I will see if I can track that down for you).
They can't give you more specific info, a it varies so much. Just as no manufacturer can tell you exactly how long the engine will last. They can give you a good guess, but no gaurantees.

I do agree with you that consumer education is of critical importance. The last thing I want is for people to try using a vehicle that won't work for them.

 

as i understand it right now vehicle manufacturers are submitting epa estimates. ie why C max claims 47 mpg but in the real world it's 39 mpg... similar to the Hyundai claims of higher mpg.

ideally it's done by the EPA.. or independent testing lab to standardize test results so consumers can compare apples to apples.

important point is that this is a battery.. and a battery degrades overtime. so this info needs to be provided.. especially loss of range when unplugged in cold vs hot weather. I don't think many buyers even think about that.

 

i disagree.. consumers should be informed. I also disagree that the NYT reporter lied. sorry not buying the koolaid.

provide the info on the sticker. it won't be perfect but neither is mpg.

important point is that the consumer has some idea of

1. battery degradation by year.
2. range loss by temp and hour when unplugged.

the consumer can then make a more informed decision if it's right for them.

 

OK thanks Crazed next time you see him... I did not see what car you are driving in your profile, but I assume you are aware of the the great WV tax credits for PiP etc...maybe he was headed back to WV.