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Consumer Reports Pegs Prime EV Range at 28 Miles

Discussion in 'Prime Fuel Economy & EV Range' started by iplug, Aug 4, 2016.

  1. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    Don't forget that Toyota promised wireless charging... But that didn't happen.

    And I for one loved the flying buttress, the 3rd Gen offered ample storage space which the 4th Gen lacking. And I dislike how the center console only opens for the driver...
     
  2. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That was a promise?

    The reason is a good one: no standard yet.

    Notice they are pursuing CHAdeMO, which wasn't promised. So, there clearly is some effort to advance.

    We do get driving-recharge mode. That's a handy be option with respect to recharging too. (I'll certainly be able to take advantage of that.)
     
    #182 john1701a, Aug 16, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    wait, we got wireless phone charging. promise fulfilled.:p
     
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  4. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Probably. They might also wait to deploy it for the Gen 5 Prius, giving them more time to lower the cost and improve efficiency.

    It's also called cost reduction. There's a reason why manufacturers are going to platform sharing rather than a dedicated platform for each vehicle. This will obviously result in compromises.

    Sounds about right. This is how Toyota is marketing the Prius family. Now that it has the Prius c and Prius v, the Liftback was free to pursue its goal of being a hybrid technological platform. The Prius c can cover the lower cost end of the market for those that want a Prius in a smaller, cheaper package. The Prius v caters to those who need more space. There's the possibility that they might make a Prius v Prime (esp. since it'll have the space for it under the floor) but I would give it a lower chance than a Camry Prime or another more popular vehicle.

    The reason is that the Prius Prime is quite heavy compared to the Gen 4. I can't imagine a larger bodied v plus the battery making the cut off for weight threshold of the TNGA chassis unless they use more exotic materials to reduce the weight.

    The Prius v will also need to separate itself from the R4h to gain sales. Right now, the R4h is a no-brainer - similar mpg, more power and standard AWD-i.

    Yes but the production version reduced the battery size from 5.x kWh to 4.4kWh. So I'm sure Toyota can make a flat floor but only if you're not expecting the 8.8kWh battery they announced. (and consequently, a lower AER)
     
  5. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    And another 2 year wait.


    Unsupervised!

    Oh I don't know about that. They redid the Plug-in Prius from a 5 kW battery (2010) to a 4.4 kW (2012) so that they were able to shrink the lost cargo space in the Gen 1 and give us selectable EV.


    Unsupervised!
     
    #185 drash, Aug 16, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2016
  6. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    The selectable EV was intentionally withheld for the prototype, since they wanted to collect real-world data without that variable.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    and there was no 2010 pip, just the mules, whenever they came out.
     
  8. Allannde

    Allannde Just a Senior

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    Here we are talking about selectable EV, heat pumps and the ability to charge on the fly while it is reported that most buyers do not even "get" the need for a plug in hybrid. Toyota serves those people, too. That is why I don't quite understand your saying that the Prime is for a different market. Aren't we the market for the PHEV?
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    nope. we're welcome to buy one, but prime wasn't built on the shoulders of pip, it's an attempt to change the driving habits of the world as we know them.
     
  10. Allannde

    Allannde Just a Senior

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    I understand what you re saying but I suspect that the "unwashed masses" do not. There is marketing/education yet to do for the driving habits of the world to be changed as you say. my evidence is the terrible resale value of the PIP even compared to the Liftback.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    but you have to realize, it's different this time around. even as we speak, toyota is on a mission to retrain all their dealership employees to introduce each and every customer that walks in to the dealership to prime.
    no matter what vehicles they may have in mind, they will likely be test driving a fully charged prime, with a prime expert in the passenger seat before they leave.

    this isn't your father's oldsmobile.:cool:
     
  12. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    No, we are not. History has taught that lesson all too well. Back in 2009, a entire year before Volt was rolled out, I began pointing out how the "40 mile" promise would fall way short. The enthusiasts attacked, claiming I was attempting to undermine GM's vehicle. They just plain wouldn't listen. No matter how much I pointed out the realities of winter, they didn't want to hear it. The fighting got pretty intense... until they got confirmation on their own, discovering I was right all along. The resistance heater consumed EV miles even more than I had predicted. Warming the cabin in Winter resulted in a significant plenty.

    I tried to set realistic expectations. This time around, we are constructively discussing the situation. That's profoundly different. We aren't the market. We are the educators. Our knowledge & experience will help inform "most buyers" of the importance. It's meaningless in this format. They'll have no clue what the difference is between a resistance heater, a regular heat-pump, and a vapor-injected heat-pump. But they will figure out that the one is somehow better than the other, that not as many EV miles will be sacrificed for warming.

    Prius Prime will attempt to overcome the market we represent, punching through to reach the untapped masses... those who know little to nothing about plugging in. That's a major challenge. How do you entice someone with no engineering background whatsoever?

    Try explaining "charge on the fly" to some random stranger. How will you get them to not only care, but to also want to know more? You'll be able to hold their attention for a maximum of 20 seconds. By early next year, you'll know how. Reports like this... getting 28 miles from a battery rated for 22 miles... is how it starts. That's the attention getter.
     
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  13. Allannde

    Allannde Just a Senior

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    John It felt like I was doing education when I had a Zap car. When I got a Prius and then a PIP, it seemed like no one cared any more. The best discussions I have are with the CEO of one local dealer and I will believe that is more than trying to make a sale when i see him driving a Prime. It seems to me that the energy of the manufacturers is greater popular demand and that will only last so long. I got the first PIP in Spokane and learned that there have been only a handful since. Two of the three local dealers will not even carry them, They will be only special order cars. We can't educate by only talking to each other.

    My departed mother used to say "one convinced against their will is of the same opinion still". I think that is disco"s point and I know it is my frustration in trying to get attention from people who I believe would like what the PIP and better what the Prime will have to offer.
     
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  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    exactly.;) most people i talk to look at me like i have 3 heads.
     
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  15. Redpoint5

    Redpoint5 Senior Member

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    Why do dealerships carry so many vehicles anyhow? What is the likelihood that they happen to have the exact car, with the exact features, with the exact colors that a person wants? I would think most vehicles would be ordered from the factory. Do buyers have to pay extra to purchase a vehicle they have built from the factory?

    I can't wait for the day that I can order direct from the factory, have it delivered to my door, and skip the process of lining the stealers pockets.
     
  16. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Very, very likely. Ordinary consumers simply shop current inventories, with the help of salespeople who direct them to choices immediately available.

    That's why Prius Prime is configured to be compelling, sharing some traits with Prius but still standout'ish. Think about how easy it will be to capture a potential buyers interest just by taking a test-drive. That to-the-floor EV, yet still a hybrid, will be a draw.
     
  17. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Oh how nice it would be if, as Bisco dreams, the dealers get well trained up on and motivated to sell the Prime - this could go really, really well.

    Say a customer walks into the dealership, maybe looking for a Prius liftback or something similar in that league. The dealer says “hey, let’s take this Prime for a test drive…same Prius DNA and Toyota quality, join the EV experience, check out this EV torque, stylish…and oh by the way, after fed, state, and other incentives, it won't cost you any more..."
     
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  18. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    Yes that's true, but even more so with toyota... How many options are there really? A base level a mid level and a top of the line. Then you have a choice of one or two packages.

    When I first started driving and bought my first new car, you could option almost every piece of equipment including a clock or no clock or single or dual horns. Air conditioning was a luxury option and it was pushed based on better resale value. I always used to option in things they didn't have so I could get a factory model not one sitting on the lot that the salesmen were taking out to lunch.
     
  19. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Sales reps at dealerships do everything they can to get you to buy something they have on the lot. Second they will try to find something closer to what you want at another dealer in the area.

    I've done that a couple of times. Never planning to go back to the "dealer" experience.
     
  20. bfd

    bfd Plug-In Perpetuator

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    TESLA does that today.

    (of course with them, by the time you add everything you really want on your car, the price is getting into new home territory, LOL)



    Well, I will say that the "dealer" experience with Dianne at Carson Toyota was something that all dealers should aspire to …
     
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