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Consumer Reports Pegs Prime EV Range at 28 Miles

Discussion in 'Prime Fuel Economy & EV Range' started by iplug, Aug 4, 2016.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    well, at least that went to make room for the super duper screen. win-win.(y)
     
    #121 bisco, Aug 14, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2016
  2. Pijoto

    Pijoto Active Member

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    If I'm ever gonna get the Prime, it'll most likely be the mid-cycle update in the next 5 years or so...so let your opinions be known until then!
     
  3. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Back to the OP, I had to search around for the old Consumers Report on the gen 1 Volt to see what they got for EV. They got 35 miles EV typically but around 20 to 25 during winter. The biggest complaint was about lack of heat and no head or leg room in the back seat.


    Unsupervised!
     
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  4. Redpoint5

    Redpoint5 Senior Member

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    What did it prevent you from doing?
     
  5. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    It's not that it prevented me from doing anything. But I find it extremely inconvenient. I can't easily reach the storage underneath. It makes me feel trapped... Confined. Can't stretch out on longer trips. But mostly it's the AC controls...I can't use them without looking at them to see where they are and which one I want.a and what the setting is. I have to take my eyes off the road too long. And then the gearshift is in the way when I reach for them. I have put rubber cabinet bumpers on the a couple switches to help find them but it's not enough. Its Just a horrible horrible design.
     
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  6. Redpoint5

    Redpoint5 Senior Member

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    I rest my hand on the gear selector because I use it so often, and from there the EV mode switch is easy to find, since I also use that frequently. Strangely, with how much I micro manage, I don't do that with the AC. I just set it and forget it.

    I find the large area beneath to be a bonus, and is nice for mostly concealing things from drug addicts when I'm parked down town.
     
  7. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    For reference Consumers Report typically got 75 miles EV and 55 miles from the gas on the BMW i3 REx.


    Unsupervised!
     
  8. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    I missed this. Reference from Toyota please.
     
  9. bfd

    bfd Plug-In Perpetuator

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    As long as my green sticker is still valid, I'll be driving the 2012 - diminishing EV range and all, it's still better than coughing up another $40K for a vehicle that's only a little better in terms of features. Not sure the "Wish I Was a Tesla Screen" is even worth a look after watching the OPs video link.

    With the price of electricity in CA so ridiculous now, it's hard to justify using even more (for just a little more EV range) unless you can offset the increased use with solar.
     
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    john is toyota.
     
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  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    every time i go to hit the a/c button, i almost hit the ev/hv button, cause i'm worried i'm going to knock the shifter into next week.
     
  12. Allannde

    Allannde Just a Senior

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    If the Prime is a "halo car" and Toyota is testing the market, that is that is both responsible and good for its future. The question remains, "does this car meet our individual needs?". Obviously it doesn't for many. But a few things stand out for me.

    Toyota makes really good (as in long lasting) cars.
    The Prime shares most body and mechanical parts with the Liftback which means that we do not risk owning a "rare car".
    Those of us who are accustomed to the controls of the Prius will not find the Prime controls strange. Toyota is usually consistent.
    PriusChat is a very useful source of information.


    And bisco, I suspect that John has better contact with Toyota than most of us. He has earned it.
     
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  13. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    I've hit the Park button by accident while driving. The PiP Just shifted into neutral and I shifted back to D.


    Unsupervised!
     
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  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    well that's a lot better than what happens when you hit the ev/hv button when you've been driving ev exclusively.
     
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  15. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Think about Prius history...

    Shortly after the 2nd generation rolled out, we were already discussing what potential the ability to travel up to 100 km/h using only electricity had to offer. Unfortunately, back then all that was available was NiMH batteries, which were robust & affordable but lacked enough energy density.

    Lithium chemistries emerged a few years later, showing realistic battery-pack opportunity. Toyota began testing. When the 3rd generation was later rolled out, we could see the power-split-device had been improved. Higher RPM from the motors was available. That would be conducive to more efficient EV driving.

    6 years ago, I got to drive one of the prototypes. It was equipped with a 5.2 kWh lithium battery along with a heat-pump for cabin-warming in the Winter. Both features ended up being scaled back. The larger pack meant a raised floor. The heat-pump meant very short EV distances. Neither were supportive of being a PLUG-IN HYBRID anyway.

    Blending was key. The system would take advantage of the gas engine whenever it presented an efficiency benefit. Maximizing EV travel simply wasn't a goal of Prius PHV.

    Soon, we'll be seeing Prius Prime. That brings back the 2 design attributes previously dropped. It also introduces "to the floor" acceleration in EV. All of which put emphasis on electricity use, not taking advantage of the gas engine at times. The larger battery has become key instead.

    True, the hybrid system will still be remarkably efficient, but the optimum balance trait won't be a fundamental anymore. That alteration of priorities changes the consumers targeted. Toyota says that's ok though, since some of their long-time customers have changed anyway. They grew up with Prius. Now, they seek something different. There are also customers of Toyota who own a Camry or Corolla that found Prius interesting... but not compelling enough to purchase. Prius Prime is intentionally different.

    Remember, the ultimate goal is to expand the market. That growth cannot be achieved by continuing to appeal to the same audience. That catch is, appealing to a different audience means not pleasing the other.
     
    #135 john1701a, Aug 14, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2016
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  16. KrPtNk

    KrPtNk Active Member

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    I don't feel that it is that clear cut a line. I know that there are many posts by present Prius owners who for one reason or another have found themselves uninterested in getting the prime. They love their cars and embrace the qualities of efficiency and practical purity they represent.

    I have always liked the Prius. From the first time I saw and drove a second generation Prius I have wanted one. If I had bought a car in those intervening years it would have been a Prius and I would have really enjoyed driving it.

    When the plug in Prius came out I wanted one. The range would have been nearly enough to do most our driving. The ability to plug in was very appealing. But we weren't in the market for a new car, then. Now we are. The Prime suits our needs even better. It has greater range, more than enough for most of our needs. It has all the advancements of the Gen 4, which are manifold. Plus with the heat pump and dual motor drive it promises to be extremely efficient and is pretty to boot.

    I very much like the Prius of the past and what promises to be a new and exciting new beginning in the Prime. You can hold both opinions simultaneously.
     
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  17. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    You keep missing the point. The Prime is based on the gen 4 Prius using its body. To make it a "Prime", Toyota created different front end and rear end to distinguish itself from the regular Prius but it is still gen 4 Prius.
    When Supra first released, it was just a glorified Celica with the same body, same interior but with an inline 6. It wasn't truly a Supra we know today til 86 1/2 model year when it no longer share anything with Celica.
    If you say that the Prime is targeted at different audience then same can be said about the 2015 Prius two and 2015 Prius five with ATP. People who drop 35K aren't looking at the Two. People who can only afford 22K aren't looking at the Five with ATP. However, they are still Prius buyers.
    Since Prime is basically a gen 4 Prius, people who are interested in it expect the same utility and capacity as the gen 4 Prius. There's not enough of a difference to attract different audience.
    AFAIK, Toyota did not announce any "Prime" plans for other Prius line. You can't attract different audiences with only 1 car.
    In the PHEV world, there are SUVs, Minivans, supercars, coupes, luxury cars, sedans, xovers, hatchbacks, then there's the Prius and its wannabe killer liftbacks. Which audiences do you think Toyota's trying attract?
     
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  18. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Bold mine...
    This is simply not true.
    A number of companies have discovered a way to make a car that is appealing to both efficiency and performance fans. Or both performance and drive quality fans. Or both testosterone seekers and drive quality.

    Sure, it isn't easy, and it doesn't always work well, but it often can.

    If you take a car that has two cup holders, and add two more, the people that liked two cup holders don't start disliking the vehicle because it has too many cup holders. Yet, the market is larger.

    Now, there are trade offs with some things. For example, it is very difficult to increase ICE engine power without lowering efficiency. So in some cases, you are correct. But as a general rule, you are wrong.
     
  19. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Oh no it isn't. Should we also ignore the rather large battery in the back that you charge with a plug, as well as the heat pump, dual motor drive, Solar roof (Europe, Japan), DCFC (Japan). You are contradicting the design engineer. The Camry Hybrid and Avalon Hybrid, share the same drive train and probably quite a few parts including body parts but that doesn't mean they are the same car. I know they aren't because I test drove each car and they have remarkably different handling and ride attributes.

    Lets look at the larger picture. Toyota is trying to create a process (TNGA) that will compete with the lower priced competition without sacrificing their vaunted reliability. The Prius and the Prius Prime are examples on utilizing the new architecture but can show divergence when necessary in the shortest amount of time without sacrificing price controls and at the same time create economies of scale. Was the design engineer forced to make sacrifices for a Global Architecture? Of course, he even said so.

    Crap, here I am an engineer defending a suit. What is this world coming to. Now I have to burn all my Hawaiian shirts in effigy.


    Unsupervised!
     
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  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    prime looks to be a fabulous car. yes it won't work for many pip owners who were expecting more, without losing anything.
    so we move on to the 'other' market we keep hearing about. unfortunately, that market is undefined, and no evidence has been presented that toyota has any clue who or how large that potential market is.
    so we'll go round and round here, with no conclusions until prime is available, sells well, fair or poorly. if the latter, the usual excuses will appear, and we'll be told we have to wait a few years and no one was expecting it to be a hit right away.