Contact with Space Aliens

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by bwilson4web, Aug 16, 2016.

  1. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    It looks like the government is loosening up on the UFO/ET issue. These are comments by a currently employed NASA director. Twenty five years ago, NASA employee Paul Hill was prohibited from publishing the following book:

    Unconventional Flying Objects: a scientific analysis

    Mr. Hill worked with a hypersonic wind tunnel, and thought that UFO reports might provide clues about the aerodynamics that he was studying. So he collected every report he could find, and studied them for consistent patterns. His wife published the book after his death in 1991.

    I've read most of the book, and haven't found anything that should be kept secret. But the thought that UFO reports might honestly reveal ETs visiting Earth violated the image that NASA demanded of its employees.

    There appears to have been a decision to acclimatize the public to the existence of ET visitation. There are quite a number of YouTube videos that have popped up in 2015/2016, but with actual content from 15 or more years ago. The data hasn't changed, but the permission to publish it has.

    None of Steven Greer's witnesses have been punished for supposedly violating their national security oaths. Greer explains that the oaths are illegal and unenforceable by the civilian courts. But the majority of the the witnesses he presents are former, not current, employees of the government. He maintains that he has additional witnesses who are not willing to come forward publicly due to fear of losing their jobs or being reassigned to punishment jobs.

    It's loosening up, but there's still a long way to go toward honest reporting.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    pretty sure hillary said she would get to the bottom of it. then again, how do we know she's human?
     
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  3. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    Interesting witness report from a photo equipment technician about structures on the far side of the moon. The video glitched several times for me, but it did eventually play in full by resetting the time index. The really interesting part starts at time 9:15.

     
  4. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    I wouldn't count on her being the one to open up. She's scared of the topic. John Podesta, her campaign chairman, is another matter. He would have released everything a President controls, were he president. But then, there are secrets that the President doesn't have access/control over.
     
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  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Stars are far apart even in the galactic middle, and much more so ‘here in the outer third’. However common are stars with planets where civilizations have evolved, one would expect them to follow similar patterns.

    Interstellar communication (radio etc.) occurs at the speed of light, unless Star-Trek-style ‘subspace communication’ can exist. AFAIK no one has proposed how that could happen; it was always just a Deus ex machina plot device. Absent this, we are talking about tens to thousands of (Earth) years of communication delays. This would (will) always play a role in how things play out.

    Physically distant travel could certainly occur, and we are already discussing how to do that at ~0.2 of the speed of light. It’s all about Newton; equal and opposite reactions. But physics really bites above ~0.5. Not gonna happen, it seems to me. There is much interest in faster than light travel, which would require modifying fabric of space, or some other physics not yet known here. It seems inappropriate to declare that impossible, from current human knowledge. We only know that we cannot, and have no evidence that anybody else can either.

    However it plays out, galactic structure is such that even if civilizations are many, they are enormously far apart. And by “far” I mean beyond scales that human minds can comfortably assess.

    Built within this, we can consider two ideas. First, that some civilization will make itself known to us (or that we will hear them). Second that they already have, as presented here by RobH. In the latter, one or more civilizations have come to earth already and that information is being held closely. Unless I mistake, they would have arrived here by ‘sub-lightspeed’ travel, and found their interests in this planet to be completely satisfied by living under US military management.

    This raises some questions. The trip by sub-lightspeed travel would have taken hundreds of our years. That seems a very large investment to me; they came here for what? To distant travelers, earth offers tourism and opportunities for biological and anthropological study. A lot of surficial water (including deep-sea biomes where terrestrial life might have evolved). For gold, iridium, and other heavy elements, earth is a desert because most went to the core >4 billion years ago. For such ‘heavies’, find a planet not so sorted much closer to home, and dig there. Could not be for hydrocarbons, with Jupiter (and many other large planets EVERYWHERE) being balls of methane. In a galactic sense, earth is a burnable-fuel desert as well.

    If Tall Whites and others are biologically similar to us, it argues strongly against independent evolution. Suggests that ‘somebody’ came to these several planets in the past and stirred the genetic pots. In my view, more could be made of that.

    But whatever ET came for, how could it be best achieved under US military management? Seriously.

    Another possibility is that ET1 came to help us defend against some other, bad ET2. That would be great, and very generous. How they are doing so, without being more obvious, seems remarkable.

    Another view is desperation. With such ET's limited travel technology, there is simply no where else they could go! In my view, more could be made of that as well.

    Other assertions that ETs are already here relate to human abductions and large-animal ‘surgery’. We have not hit such topics here before, and I’ll probably regret mentioning them.

    To belabor a point, super-lightspeed travel would change EVERYTHING. With that, mid-galaxy civilizations could already be hob-nobbing among themselves. We might hear of it by listening in just the right directions. They might look (for us here) in the outer galaxy, time and interest permitting. How they might manage ‘contact’ is beyond our ability to anticipate.

    If galactic civilizations exist (and can travel), we on earth should want to in the game. This would require abandoning long-held ideas of human primacy.

    All that seems for the future. For now we are listening as well as possible from on earth. Obvious large improvement is to begin listening from the backside of earth’s moon. This is my best use of space money; better than sending heroic meatbags to die on Mars by way of slow rockets.

    Assuming this galaxy is not ‘empty’, let’s get into the game. But if ETs are here already, why aren’t they helping?
     
  6. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Space aliens have been here for some time now.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how tall is he? hmm... 6'-2", does that qualify?
     
    #127 bisco, Sep 3, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2016
  8. Coast Cruiser

    Coast Cruiser Senior Member

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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    cajun style.
     
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  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    If you want to know 'state of the art' in exoplanet atmospheres, read

    doi:10.1038/nature18641

    Hubble Space Telescope has better spectral resolution than JWST (unless I'm wrong). JWST will have better spatial resolution and see further into infrared. Neither has the gadget to block main-star light to reveal planetary atmospheres. So, this is what can be done now.

    I find it interesting that HST (mainframe) was just one of ~30 downlooking military intel scopes, pointed out instead of in. 'Points to' our differing priorities. Plus, how could only this one get its primary mirror made wrong?

    Seriously.
     
  11. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Ssshhhh! Isn't that still a secret? :)
    I'm wonder whether any of the military mirrors were focused at infinity. It seems likely that none were -- from LEO, the surface is much closer than 'infinity' -- so HST may have needed unique test fixtures. The main fixture was botched, and with severely strained relations between the company and NASA, the production process lacked expertise and oversight.

    I understand that two backup mirrors were figured correctly. They just were not made by the 'preferred' contractor.
     
  12. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    We use frequency hopping and spread-spectrum for many types of radio communications (not all of them classified :) ). Sometimes to prevent eavesdropping but other times to 'get the message through' with low transmitted power. Or equivalently to extend range, which is totally a 'galactic' issue.

    Thus it occurs to me that ET might be doing something similar. If so our monitoring on individual frequencies may be ineffective. Hoping that our RF engineering types may be drawn in to comment on the matter. There is lots of 'signal' (noise) being collected now on many different frequencies, and perhaps enough computational power to look for coincidences. But perhaps a search strategy is needed, and engineers might suggest.
     
  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Idea that most civilizations should be much closer to galactic center than we are is pretty much contained in publications by Gowanlock. An uncommon enough name that your searching would be easy. Plus they are not paywalled (not that it is much of a wall :) ).

    In the politics version of this thread I suggested dividing galaxy radially into thirds. That may not be particularly helpful; we seem to be looking at plain old exponential decay with radius.

    Lacking faster-than-light travel, most of the action is far away, with thousands of years of 'radio' latency and ever-weaker signals.

    With such travel, Earth is perfectly accessible for ET. We simply have no way to anticipate whether or not they'd want to make themselves known.

    That a few (from relatively near) are already here has been suggested already. My personal opinion that all such activities described seem illogical ought not count for much.
     
  14. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    Spread spectrum communications does nothing to change the Shannon Limit on information transmission. If the goal is to send communication information, Spread spectrum techniques provides nil bang for the buck unless there is some non-physics reason in play. The vast majority of manmade spread spectrum uses (e.g. CDMA phones) are to minimize interference and jamming from other manmade RF sources. If ET is trying to communicate without being detected, that is rather trivial...Ensure no RF energy is emitted to any undesired destination. That is the most common military technique for Low Probability of Intercept comms. Cannot find it if it is not there.

    What is really worth thinking about is the difference between sending a signal optimized to be detected compared to a signal designed to efficiently communicate information. A signal designed to maximize peak energy in a very short duration makes a much better beacon than having the energy spread out. Getting the SNR really high for a short period is good for two reasons. The first reason is a very short burst spreads energy over a wide frequency band. It is very hard to miss. The second reason is just modulating powerful bursts in time can provide clear indications of unnatural origin immediately. Unfortunately, it may be a distress signal or a warning signal. Figuring that out would be mighty hard but very important.
     
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  15. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    Extensive list of UFO incidents discussed on the website "Above Top Secret".

    Jkrog's New and Revised Chronological UFO Thread Directory., page 1

    One that I found particularly amusing is "Waving at the aliens - The Papua New Guinea UFO sightings". A UFO hovered over 38 people for an extended period. Four people were observed on top of the craft, and exchanged waves with the people on the ground.

    From the report:

    "Large UFO first sighted by Annie Laurie at 6 p.m. in apparently same position as last night (26/6/59) only seemed a little smaller, when W.B.G. saw it at 6.02 p.m. I called Ananias and several others and we stood in the open to watch it. Although the sun had set it was still quite light for the following fifteen minutes. We watched figures appear on top- four of them - no doubt that they are human. Possibly the same object that I took to be the "Mother" ship last night. Two smaller UFOs were seen at the same time, stationary. One above the hills west, another overhead. On the large one two of the figures seemed to be doing something near the centre of the deck--were occasionally bending over and raising their arms as though adjusting or "setting up" something (not visible). One figure seemed to be standing looking down at us (a group of about a dozen). I stretched my arm above my head and waved. To our surprise the figure did the same. Ananias waved both arms over his head then the two outside figures did the same. Ananias and self began waving our arms and all four now seemed to wave back. There seemed to be no doubt that our movements were answered. All mission boys made audible gasps (of either joy or surprise, perhaps both)."​
     
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  16. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    A website with audio recorded from various places in space.

    spacesounds | we are listening

    There is a circle of a dozen or so selection buttons around the words "Spacesounds Energy Streams" on the left. Selections include "Big Bang Remnants", "Cosmic Debris", "Sputnik", "Vela Pulsar", and more.
     
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  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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  18. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    [​IMG]
     
  19. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    This cartoon is actually quite appropriate.

    If Charles Hall's description of the Tall Whites is accurate, they really need to be isolated from the human population. They are, by human standards, quite fragile. An ordinary handshake would likely injure them severely. And once injured, they take much longer to heal than humans.

    Consider how you would feel about being thrown into the gorilla cage at the zoo. Maybe the gorillas would be gentle, but, on the other hand, they're capable of tossing you around like a rag doll.

    What the Tall Whites lack in strength, they make up in weaponry. Humans who so much as accidentally bumped into them were immediately killed. Charles Hall was the first of 40+ humans to survive more than a few weeks in their presence. His primary technique was don't touch, don't move toward them, don't move fast. And don't freak out.

    Interaction between Tall Whites and humans needs to be limited to individuals fully versed in the required etiquette. The Tall White individuals need training, first in English, and next in trust. Humans who interact with them need to avoid physical contact (no handshakes, certainly no back slapping, and no contact with their children). Human physical contact intended as friendship is regarded as aggression by Tall Whites.

    Assuming that proper etiquette is followed and peaceful interaction occurs, just what do they actually want with us? They want a safe place to maintain a base along their interstellar travel routes. They were here before Europeans even arrived in Nevada, so any "invasion" has been by humans on the territory that they already occupied. Think of what the US does with the Guantanamo base in Cuba. Are we there to help the Cubans? Hardly. We're there because having a base there is useful for all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with the rest of Cuba.

    It's clearly in human interest to learn everything we can about their technology and knowledge of space. But they're as wary of giving us weapon & space travel technology as we are of giving Iran nuclear bombs. Going to be a while...
     
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  20. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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