Converting Prius G3 to all Electric removing ICE

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by smilyme, Nov 3, 2019.

  1. smilyme

    smilyme Junior Member

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    Hi

    This would be for DYI enthusiasts only.

    I am converting a Prius 3 to all electric in 2020.
    by bypassing Toyota's computer and removing ICE.

    Since the Gen 2 Prius conversion shenanigans of 2005~2010
    and with the introduction of Nissan, Chevy,
    and their used markets,
    economical conversion are no longer recommended or sensible
    for the average consumer.
    (keeping Ice or not)

    (not to mention that G2 could not go very fast in electric mode
    unless you hijacked the Inverter Controller AND modified the Transaxle)


    G2 is problematic, among the issues you would have to open the Transaxle
    and weld the planetary gears together to match the gear ratio of M1 and M2
    And I think this knowledge has only recently been discovered / understood.
    The Combined HP of M1 and M2 is less. The Car is weaker.

    A Couple of thing have changed around 2020,
    we are starting to see Gen 3 Prius, Camry, and Lexus Hybrids,
    available cheap
    or as scrap with fatal ICE problems.

    Removing all ICE component ,
    bypassing all things Toyota,
    and controlling while using Toyota's original Inverter M1 and M2,
    and of course a proper EV battery
    and behold a low cost EV!

    I just purchase a wreck.


    I know someone will ask , can this work on a hybrid
    I cant do this as a Hybrid,
    this project is not for a Hybrid
    because that would require keeping the ECU and ICE
    interfacing to Toyota system in a way that would require the
    project to rely on tricks and bypasses
    and there's plenty of examples out there.
    (that retain Toyota's control and create a work around)
    (even on the G3)

    By eliminating the ICE, (and why we got the car for $300 as the ICE is broken)
    we can bypass fully Toyota's control.

    I expect I can start in January 2020.
    Any links to any projects that have done this on G3 would be appreciated.

    Currently I'm curious how the car will respond once I remove the
    inverter/Ice controller that is embedded in the G3 Inverter Module.
    Just how many other systems will need bypassing
    or what will need attention once I reapply system voltage.
    (as my Controller will be controlling the Inverter (M1,M2) thereafter, and ICE is removed)



    Thank You
    Bill Pearce
     
    #1 smilyme, Nov 3, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
  2. Maarten28

    Maarten28 Active Member

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    I'm interested to know how this works. You say "weld the planetary gears together to match the gear ratio of M1 and M2". When the ICE does not rev (and probably when it is not present), MG1 has to turn reverse with respect to MG2. How is this accomplished? At what ratio do MG1 and MG2 turn? If it is the same as normal (143:145) then you won't go very fast.

    I suppose you will have to add a big battery. Does this battery also work with a normally operating Prius converting it to a plugin)?
     
  3. Elektroingenieur

    Elektroingenieur Senior Member

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    Besides the Prius PHV, the Toyota Mirai is the closest that I know of: it has the Q410 transaxle, which—at least from the line drawings in New Car Features (more info)—is a single-motor derivative of the P410 from the third-generation Prius.

    Oak Ridge National Laboratory did some tests on the third-generation Prius hardware; see Burress, T.A., et al., “Evaluation of the 2010 Toyota Prius Hybrid Synergy Drive System” (PDF), ORNL/TM-2010/253, 2011.

    The books I mentioned in the last conversion thread might also be of interest.
    I’m not sure which part you mean. The motor generator (MG) ECU in the inverter with converter assembly (power control unit) doesn’t control the gasoline engine; it just runs the power electronics—see N. Maeda, “Construction of Hybrid Vehicle Motor Generator ECU,” SAE Technical Paper 2006-01-1341, for a good block diagram of an older version.

    Removing the MG ECU, power management control ECU (HV CPU), or engine control module (ECM)—without a suitably-programmed replacement, or a completely new control system—will prevent the car from operating and turn on several warning lights.
    If you’re not using the Toyota control system, all of them, to a first approximation. The floor mats and cupholders are probably OK, but just about everything else will need careful thought.
     
  4. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    You’d have an easier time converting a mule into a horse.

    Trying to change vehicle types is hard. Nobody buys a broken submarine to build a cheaper helicopter.
     
  5. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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  6. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    I think some people just have TOO much time on their hands! :)
     
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  7. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Bill is working on the Firebrid to preserve a sentimental car to enjoy during retirement. He is a mechanical engineer that has the skills to make it happen too.
     
  8. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Any car can be cheaply converted to a BEV.
    (see forkenswift)

    but all screens and onboard displays generally become useless save maybe the speedo and odometer .

    using the “OEM” parts while slick In concept requires someone to break down can codes and OBDII programming.

    that has happened on the leaf which can now be used as a donor car for the motor inverter battery and charger

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/vw-golf-prius-motor-invertor-89278.html%3famp=1

    I would recommend digging into diyelectriccar as there have been various external inverter control systems made for the various OEMs but due to the Prius being considered underpowered I’m not sure if as much effort has gone there.
     
  9. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Let’s consider the specific goal: converting it to EV for less than the cost of replacing the gas engine.

    forkenswift cites $998 CAD as of 2009. Adjusted for Canadian inflation that’s $1175 CAD today ($893 USD for reference)

    Forkenswift included the cost of the glider car in that total, so if we apply the same here there would be 1175 - 300 = $875 (all CAD) remaining in the budget to repower the car.

    It might take some hours hunting for a cheap running engine priced under that figure but it has happened, and can happen again.

    There have been plenty of DIYers who successfully did the swap engines even if they didn’t pay that low of a price. The point is that the swap procedure is relatively well known and very well documented where a conversion is not, and every stumbling block is an opportunity to spend money.
     
    #9 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Nov 4, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  10. smilyme

    smilyme Junior Member

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    Thanks you Prius community
    after lurking for almost a decade
    its great to be here.!!!!!



    Maarten28:

    yes, normally m1 does go reverse to m2
    and is geared 2.4 to 1 I think
    and acts as a starter for the ICE
    and alternator / EV battery charger
    here is a great link to one of many videos from
    Weber State University about Prius on G2 gearing




    Welding the planetary gears together in a G2 Prius
    would essentially combine m1 and m2 into one motor combining HP.

    Toyota's original existing
    inverter hardware/software
    would need to be replaced
    and the ICE would be disconnected.
    (as no hybrid would be possible)
    (God knows what else, I will let you know next summer.)

    Now, some newly installed inverter controller
    then controls both motors
    in unison, kinda in parallel
    effecting creating a single EV motor
    but now with enough HP for a true EV from a G2.

    Alternately, DYI enthusiast are installing
    this transaction modification into EV conversion,
    here is a link how to do the weld from Damien Maguire.




    Elektroingenieur:

    Thanks for those links, I especially love
    The Oak Ridge National Laboratory Evaluation
    What a great resource, thank you so very much.

    "Removing the MG ECU, power management control ECU (HV CPU),
    or engine control module (ECM)—without a suitably-programmed replacement,
    or a completely new control system—will prevent the car from operating
    and turn on several warning lights."

    Yes I am expecting very little features to work!,
    this is the only unknown fo me!
    What i will bypass or re-engineer or disconnect.
    The key-fob, alarm, steering lock, Signals,
    (none of the dash cluster is required)
    I will be a "basics" car I assume
    we will see what I can revive.


    ASRDogman:

    I have a dog too, his pic will be up soon, I love dogs.


    Prodigyplace:

    But what would feed my compulsive need for Electronic Challenges?
     
  11. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    This little endeavor will certainly not be inexpensive, easy or quick. It's going to be extremely challenging. Should be interesting.
     
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  12. smilyme

    smilyme Junior Member

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    Rmay635703:

    your comment

    I would recommend digging into diyelectriccar as there have been various external inverter control systems made for the various OEMs but due to the Prius being considered underpowered I’m not sure if as much effort has gone there.

    I'm sorry Rmay635703 I misunderstood your comment earlier before the edit
    thank you
    I have been waiting for someone to
    reverse engineer the G3 inverter logic controller
    I think this is a Japanese Panasonic piece of art
    with so many other uses and
    I would not be interested otherwise.
    I will post the links once my status is restored i seem to have been disabled.

    About Prius being considered under-powered
    but not with the (extensive) modification discovered above.
     
    #12 smilyme, Nov 4, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  13. smilyme

    smilyme Junior Member

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    thanks
    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller
    I not interested in doing something that's been done before, that's no fun for me.
    I did mention DIY enthusiast and aren't we all nuts so trying to apply logic here
    wont get you anywhere. :)


    Thanks
    TMR-JWAP
    nice pup

     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    watching eagerly, please post plenty of pics and data. all the best!(y)
     
  15. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Many ways.
    Restore & modernize old computer hardware (SD Cards for storage, for instance)
    Smart Home systems using free software such as OpenHAB. Many people "hack" some cheap electronic hardware to suit their purposes.
    Build your own computer.

    The possibilities are endless and do not involve the possibility of death if things should fail.
     
  16. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/any-ac-motor-any-inverter-umc-152234.html%3famp=1

    Then start here,
    UMC Drive 3.0 Universal Motor Controller – Advantics

    the designer is on both diyelectriccar and endless sphere

    GEN III is explicitly mentioned
     
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  17. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    It would be a lot easier to just design one from scratch. Patent it.
    Then you can sell it or lease all the tech stuff.
     
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  18. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Actually it would be a lot easier to start with a scraped Prime that already has a one way clutch to use MG1 for acceleration. It also is programmed more for EV driving.
     
  19. Bill the Engineer

    Bill the Engineer Senior Member

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    Did I mention that I have 6 patents? Didn't earn a thing beyond my normal pay for any of them.
     
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  20. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    or get a battery, charger and wire that UMC thing I linked to into the canbus
     
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