Coronavirus: Ten Things to Think About

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by SFO, Mar 31, 2020.

  1. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    The Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity : Coronavirus: Ten Things to Think About

    1. All of this can be solved by following the voluntary principle: If you are worried then stay home. If you are willing to assume the risk then go to work. Going to work means you may interact with people and thus get sick. It's a risk. The other people at work took on this risk of their own choosing too. Life is full of risks. Not going to work has its own obvious risks associated with it. Let people choose their own paths based on their own risk tolerance and voluntary choices. Don't impose your view via government force on those of us that peacefully disagree with you.

    2. There have been 23,000 US deaths so far this year due to flu, 3,000 from coronavirus. Worldwide stats are roughly in parallel. Legitimate population samples and common sense show that the virus has infected way more people than reported by the immoral news organizations that make money off this hysteria. It is highly likely that REAL death rates are closer to .05 percent rather than the oft-emphasized 3 percent.

    3. Social Distancing makes people distrust one another. People that are afraid of each other are easier to control. We just had a house fire and while nobody will shake my hand because they're afraid to death of coronavirus, they'll happily walk around in the burned down home without a respirator. Of course the burned down house is far more likely to be an immediate and serious health threat. Anyone else see a problem here?

    4. I have already seen certain local governments posting websites for all of us to tell on each other for congregating in groups. My wife has had skeptical posts removed from Facebook. Sounds a lot like the secret police to me.

    5. Will they soon be forcibly vaccinating my whole family even though there's a huge chance I'm naturally immune to this virus already? What if I don't want the vaccine? What if I would rather develop a natural immunity? Am I going to be targeted (modern day witch hunt) as a bio terrorist germ spreader if I want to contract the cold and let my body beat it on its own? Of course, since vaccines have all kinds of toxins in them and since they'll also get rushed to market in the hysteria, there's a huge likelihood making me take the vaccine would do more harm than good. Is anyone going to be held responsible for that if it were to happen?

    6. Everyone's job is "essential" to their own ability to put food on their table. I'm tired of people telling my wife and I that her work as a realtor isn't essential. Tell that to my kids. The government does not have a right to make it illegal to work and then pretend to solve the problem by printing money it does not have. Of course, printing money only steals the purchasing power of what little savings people do have in the bank to cover themselves during this absurd moment in time. How about just getting out of the way?

    7. The first amendment to the constitution is supposed to guarantee the right of Americans to peacefully assemble with their fellow man. THAT IS, TO PEACEFULLY PROTEST AS A GROUP. What happens when I get together with >10 people to protest this insane coronavirus lockdown that does nothing to stop the spread of a disease the government is likely 6 months behind? I would probably spend 6 months in jail and everyone would tell me I'm trying to kill their grandparents. INSANE! There is no provision in the constitution that allows for this fundamental human right to assemble to be ignored during the coronavirus or at any other time. Therefore, like most things the US government does, this is fundamentally illegal nonsense.

    8. The government has no money. It has to steal everything it gets and since it's in the red, it has to print the $2 trillion out of thin air. The one honest guy in the House of Representatives, Thomas Massie, called this a huge wealth transfer from the masses to the rich with $1200 as the cheese in the trap. He is exactly right. He is of course getting slaughtered in the press for trying to force other representatives to at least put their names on the vote. Of course, the insane bipartisan consensus of stupidity is slaughtering him for having enough integrity to ask for ACCOUNTABILITY. They just say he's trying to make us all sick by coming back to DC to vote! Again, Insane.

    9. The Federal Reserve (the small group of economics PhDs who have the monopoly privilege to counterfeit money and falsely believe that they can model human action as an equilibrium equation) just said they would backstop all debt. So here we go again only this time it's worse. Now the Fed has established three new lending facilities to buy corporate bonds.

    So first they print the money to keep prices from falling in '08 to a level where private citizens could afford houses. Then they bought up all the mortgages (so the Fed really owns all the homes in America). Now they're printing up more money to buy all the big companies. So soon the Fed will own all the businesses because who can compete with a printing press. Who needs a communist revolution when you have central banking?

    Welcome to 1984 in the central banking states of America.

    10. And last, but not least, both Chinese and American politicians seem intent to blame each other for the virus. So maybe they'll top it all of with a cherry on top... another war anyone? Give it a few years I'm sure it's coming. After all, Hitler took over when the Weimar Republic printed its currency into oblivion. I don't remember that working out too well.

    People need to start pushing back against this insanity.
     
  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Kinda lost me at the "yeah, I'll compare the low early numbers on a novel virus's exponential spread to the typical peak numbers for a known virus that comes round most years slightly mutated" part.

    Leaving aside what can even happen with our old buddy influenza if it comes round some year with a wackier mutation than usual.
     
  3. noonm

    noonm Senior Member

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    :eek:

    Lots of applicants for the Darwin Award this year.
     
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  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    How long till this yoinks over to Fred's other house?
     
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  5. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    Could be awhile, as everyone is pretty chill these days.

    There is nothing that political or exciting in this article, but lemmings and plebs, and the RPIPP non-profit. And the comments are chill.

    Even the most recent thread by @hkmb has had some staying power, and it could potentially be construed as far more politicized as published or in the current PC commentary, and even then it still hasn't gone too far off the track (depending on your view of course).

    Though many users here are fairly strong in their beliefs, it doesn't appear that PC has gone full Reddit in the approach to the modding of any and all threads/posts that don't rhyme with a particular narrative or ideology. Let us hope PC never has to deal with that level of censorship.

    Chinese Company's Reddit Investment Angers Users Who Fear Censorship | Time

    Reddit Is Set to Land a Massive Chinese Investment | Fortune

    Reddit gets a $150 million investment from Tencent and users are posting memes to mock the deal - The Verge
     
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  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Sure, what the hell.
    1. The risk isn't just getting sick. There is a real risk of over whelming our medical care system. A person getting sick has impact beyond just themselves. Those choosing to go to work in fields not deemed essential, will they opt to not go to the hospital if they got sick enough to need it?
    2. Flu season tends to start in October for the US, peaking in February, and it should end in April. the first US case of COVID19 was reported in the last half of January, and we don't know if warmer weather will slow it down. We do know people infected with the coronavirus shed it for two to three times longer than those with the flu, meaning its ability to infect others in far greater than the seasonal flu. If we were prepared for the level testing required, we could say if the WHO's reported mortality rate of 1.4% was correct or not.
    3. First off, there are risks beyond what is in the air when walking around in a burned down home. People doing so without proper precautions very likely don't know those risks, while they do know the risk the virus poses when they don't shake your hand. Maybe you should be informing them of the risk. Second, I'm not seeing the distrust.
    4. You are starting to sound paranoid. Is it the secret police we are suppose to report unattended luggage too?
    5. First, a vaccine is not more likely to cause more harm than good. Second, we don't force the flu vaccine on people, nor pneumonia, shingles, etc., so I don't see that being the case with this. The only vaccines with a level of mandatory requirement are ones for childhood diseases; ones that can severely harm a child. As of now, this disease seems to have little to no effect on that part of population. Third, maybe you should talk to someone about that paranoia.
    6. As was said here, China knifed their economy to fight the virus' spread. That will have ripple effects across the globe. Unrelated, Russia and Saudi Arabia got into an oil price war than is hurting US producers. Regardless of the actions taken here in reaction to the virus, there was going to be an economic impact. As for your situation, I'm sure your wife can still work. Cars are still being sold, so I don't think home buying has actually stopped, but how many are actually in the market at this time? Would that actually be different if the US took different actions? What would the real estate market be like if we have death rates like Italy?
    7. That Amendment also enshrines the right to free speech, yet there are times and situations in which the courts have decided it is okay to have limitations on that right, the "you can't yell fire in crowded theatre" rule. As for jail time for gathering in large groups at this time, has some body actually passed laws with that penalty, or is this just hyperbole?
    8. and 9. and 10. Rand Paul voted for that massive tax break, which is a main cause for the latest growth of federal debt. I don't recall him speaking out against Trump for pressuring the Fed to lower rates during a time of economic growth. Nor him sponsoring any bills to bring the Federal Bank's power back to Congress. So I'm not sure he can be complaining about this. And this is far from 1984. The actors trying to get us there are Trump and the GOP, with their 'alternative facts'. I suspect the American politicians blaming China over this are from that same group.
     
  7. dubit

    dubit Senior Member

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    meh - if I get it, I get it. If I don't, I don't.

    I do know I don't want to turn around every few months and do this again if it really cycles back around like they say. I mean really - how long and how many times can we do this? Do I trust the Gov? Nope - not enough to take one of their vaccines if they come out with it. I was forced to take the Anthrax vaccine back when I was in the military - and they forced us to sign a paper that said we would not pursue litigation if any ill effects ever occurred.

    Yeah - nope. Don't trust them, never will and if you do then your stupid.
     
  8. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Seems to me that #1 is a gross oversimplification of the situation, that is somewhat revealed within it's own canon by #6.
    I would think there are a LOT of people that are worried and would like to stay home, that simply are forced to take the risk for economic reasons. ---#6--everyone's job is essential to their own economic survival.
     
  9. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    <deeeeep breath.....>

    1. As stated above. No person is an island. The thought that we should "Let people choose their own paths based on their own risk tolerance and voluntary choices." is not shared with the scared-as-hell, twenties-something single mom that has to dress in a Racal suit and intubate your stupid butt in an ER.
    I lean decidedly Libertarian, but there's a REASON that sometimes dot.gov IS the answer.
    If there's any truth to the ChiComm's numbers, it is because they practiced VERY different modes of pandemic mitigation than we have thus far.

    2. One half of one percent of Americans is still 1,750,000 people.
    The normal flu has an infection rate of 5-20 percent....which puts this bug WELL beyond the typical 40,000 dead drivers every year.
    (presuming a 10% infection rate and a 0.5 percent mortality...for this bug)
    BUT...you can't have it both ways - well unless you're fake news.
    If this bug is more virulent than the normal flu bug then one should expect more than 175,000 dead folks during OPS Normal.
    Somewhat less if you go all 1942 Honolulu or 1992 Los Angeles.

    3. Funerals make people distrust each other even MORE.
    Especially when you're the one in the box.

    4. What's facebook? That's like....what grandpa uses, right?

    5. See: California.
    Herd immunity. Anti vaccer threads.
    In a world where even the Amish and Mormons get vaccinated and hipsters out in Caly do not - this is a self-solving problem.

    6. See #1

    7. See USC, Article 1, Section 9. If you're going to worship a piece of paper, then at least have some passing familiarity with it.

    8. Dot.gov has ALL THE MONEY.
    Yeah....you can barter, but remember that when you try to buy one loaf of bread with your $1,500 gold Canadian Maple-leaf Coin, you might be a little dissapointed with your change if you're not really a big believer in "gobermint money."

    9.See # 8.

    10. See Godwin's law.
    People always get hit by the bus that they do NOT see.
    If everybody is always looking for Hitler....they never see a Stalin or Mao.
     
    #9 ETC(SS), Apr 1, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
  10. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    The person who wrote that needs to watch the documentary about the 1918 Spanish Flu epidemic.

    You can't fix stupid.
    Freedom means the freedom to be stupid too.
    Until it conflicts with my freedom from being infected by some Ahole who gets in my face.

    NOW.....having said that, you can be stupid in the other direction too.
    I think the Governor of Florida is getting it right:
    You take draconian measures ONLY when they make scientific sense.

    A complete travel ban makes no sense.
    One can travel by himself without stopping where other people will be in close contact and if he has no symptoms, the odds of that creating a problem for him or anyone else is pretty much ZERO.

    But then......if you are in an area where ALL of the hospital beds are already full, maybe travel of any kind isn't a good idea......incase you are involved in an accident.

    One size does NOT fit all.......and the cure should not be worse than the disease.

    ANYBODY who thinks they have all the answers.......very likely doesn't.
     
  11. litesong

    litesong Active Member

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    Philosophy will NOT get people thru ccp coronavirus, fer sure. Also, philosophy will NOT get people thru more virus's that ccp communist chinese (always small letters) will unleash on the world (with the help of "don'T rump"). Yesterday, 821 people in the U.S. died of the ccp coronavirus. Soon, daily U.S. ccp coronavirus deaths will equal U.S. TOTAL ccp coronavirus deaths, now. Philosophize THAT.
     
  12. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    +1

    I myself have stated that we do not need to over-react to this because the pandemic is going to look very different in Idaho than it does in Manhattan.

    This is sorta how Republics are SUPPOSED TO work.
    Three towns local to me are under a curfew....and there are severe limits for businesses.
    Counties do their thing....
    States do theirs.... (lookin at YOU Florida and Louisiana!)
    Didn't want to cancel Spring Break and Mardi-Gras - huh?
    Thanks for the Petri-dishes!! :(

    Once the hospitals start filling up....they'll probably ratchet this up - like they had to do in Italy....($1,600 fine for leaving the house without a proper reason according to a squid stationed there.)
    You could probably flatten the curve right now by closing down all businesses except for curbside or delivery - but this would not work in BFE where the nearest store to you is a Mom and Pop or a Dollar Genteral.

    YMMV
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    tl;dr
     
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  14. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Libertarian-ism and viruses.

    You didn't miss anything new or even very interesting.
     
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  15. litesong

    litesong Active Member

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    Are the citizens of Idaho more concerned about the ccp coronavirus future or their 6.5 earthquake, yesterday?
     
  16. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    I do not pretend to speak for them....but I presume that the Earthquake (a relatively common thing there) killed 9 fewer people than COVID-19 will......so far.

    The pandemic will also make more people there homeless. poor, food insecure, etc and cause them to move to a place where the homeless are more openly tolerated.
     
  17. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    No contest.
    Covid-19: 525 cases, 9 dead.
    Earthquake: NINE EARTHQUAKES STRIKE IDAHO; AUTHORITIES SEARCHING FOR DAMAGE AND INJURIES

    [​IMG]

    upload_2020-4-1_9-40-39.png

    Sis was riding the ATV while checking calves, so didn't feel it.
     
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  18. ice9

    ice9 Active Member

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    ...That, and potential nominees for the Darwin Award.
     
  19. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    OK seriously, US may have the worst from this. In flame politics area we could discuss flimsy late border closures, flimsy late public distancing, and not-yet surveillance testing. But I wish Prius Chatters to weather this storm as well as possible.

    So, whatever you are advised to do, it is probably not enough. For time it is probably not long enough.

    There are countries and perhaps continents that may blow up and leave US far behind. No source for joy there.

    If you are happily healthy as I hope you are, some less healthy or health-care workers could likely be found. Think about helping them.
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    'there are countries and perhaps continents that may blow up and leave US far behind'

    you lost me there doc (n)
     
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