Correct me if I'm wrong... (new Gen1 owner)

Bob,

Thanks again for the education. Based on the 33kW motor, I estimate the modules must deliver 120A at nominal pack voltage.

Steve

 

If that's the case, then 50A * 300V = 15kW, which means the motor will never put out anything near its 33kW rating. At pack nominal voltage, it's only 13.7kW. I'm not arguing. I'm trying to understand.

 

LOL... thanks... the 20kW statement only muddies the water... that would suggest an 88A max draw, but you said 50A max inverter limit. I clearly need to do more research. I admit I've been lazy. I just learned what MG1 & MG2 means... must digest more wiki.

So, 33kW MG2 is produced by ~15kW HVB + ~18kW ICE+MG1?

 

I appreciate your position. The goal of this project was to get an operable vehicle at a low cost. A new pack would defeat this purpose... plus I like playing with the battery bits...

Plus, I do my darnedest to keep my $ from going to the dealer.

However, does anyone know if new Toyota Gen1 packs still use Gen1 modules? Since Gen1, 2 & 3 are interchangeable when done a whole pack at a time, It would make sense that they no longer make Gen1 modules and Gen1 packs come with Gen2 or Gen3 modules. Economy of scale, improved reliability and whatnot.

 

Based on MSRP from toyota parts direct:

2003: $2,299 ($60.50/module)
2004: $2,589 ($92.46/module)
2010: $2,729 ($97.46/module)

The above neglects core charges.

I question whether or not the proposed analysis offers any insight due to deeper complexities.

Assumptions:

1. There are dramatically fewer Gen1 still on the road than Gen2 or Gen3.
2. Production quantities would be MUCH lower than Gen2 or Gen3.
3. Lower production quantities generally result in higher piece prices.
4. Each module iteration represents an incremental improvement over the last generation.
5. Those incremental improvements represent a small change to the base cost of the module when deployed at the mass quantity scale.
6. It is ultimately more economical to make 1 module common to all new and replacement packs than it is to maintain 3 different designs, particularly when there is a 7 year span between the first and third iteration.
7. Pricing is variable and depends on multiple factors. Owners of newer cars with a significant book value will be more willing to stomach a larger repair bill and justify a higher profit margin while a maintenance event that is a significant (greater than half the value of the car) will likely not be tolerated.

Given the above and the fact that the Gen1 modules are knowingly inferior, it does not make sense for Toyota to continue to produce and offer Gen1 modules even in its intended installation UNLESS it has a supply of old packs with old modules that it needs to clear out.

So, I think the only real answer can be provided by someone with connections at Toyota, OR someone who has cracked open a recently replaced pack. That's what I was hoping for...

Thanks,

Steve

 

Yes indeed. That thought occurred to me about a week ago.

Stinkin' cores...

 

Whelp... I've given up on this pack. The two modules are still stellar. A handful will put out very low current (less than 1A) in the 1000-5000mAh range, but NONE have shown any significant improvement.

There are two Prius C packs available in my area (Gen3 modules). One from an 8K car and another from a 16K car. That will leave me with only two spare modules and $1,650 invested in the two packs.

During the same search effort, I located someone who "consolidates" good modules (based solely on as-removed voltage) into packs and sells the packs for $400. I'm going to buy two and take my chances. I figure I'll have a decent shot at getting 38 good ones out of 56. These are Gen2 packs.

More to come...

 

I've been thinking about that a bit. I'm thinking If we could determine the plastic, we could possibly use a solvent to bond a "plug" in place - something along the lines of acetone and ABS. I routinely use acetone to enhance the strength of my ABS 3D printed pieces. When the acetone evaporates, the ABS is "welded" in place.

I have a friend who can do FTIR analysis of plastics, but his database is very limited... I wonder if he could determine the "family" of plastics to get me on the right track towards a solvent or other bonding agent... Hmmm...

Or, could one fashion a "mushroom" plug type of mechanical seal...

Whatever the case... I'll have 36 cells with which to play!

Steve

 

Paul,

Thanks for the info.

Brad,

Thank you for the links and the material info. I'll definitely get there at some point AFTER I get the car back on the road.

Well, as to the sealing process, now I know what that goop is all over the tops of the terminals. Based on Didn't help much as we had seepage around the positive terminals, and it was a PAIN to clean off. What a mess.

 

Two Gen2 packs in hand. After recording resting voltage and IR of each module (pretty big range), I grid charged the first for about 24 hours. Peak voltage seemed low at 230. I would have expected 235+.

Steve