Cost of Electricity in New York State

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by Electric Charge, Feb 13, 2014.

  1. Gaëtan Lafrance

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    In Québec, the cost of electricity is around 0,06$ (CAD) per Kwh
     
  2. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    A flat fee is unpredictable?

    TOU and Tier system would make it unpredictable to answer your question.

    If both neighbor charge at different time or in different Teir, the cost will not be the same.

    My mom and my old home are 6.5 miles apart. Last month, she paid around 22 cents per kWh for supply and about 11 cents for delivery per kWh.

    For mine, the supply charge was about 40 cents per kWh (not typo) and about 11 cents per kWh.

    Neighbor or not, the true cost of electricity can varies a lot. It is not as simple as "supply charge".
     
  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Very true for your case.

    I suggest reporting 'TOU cost/kWh' and Tier # cost/kWh. Those rates define the marginal cost from the utility. Let's avoid having your personal consumption confuse the picture.
     
  4. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    The cost is unique to every household, isn't it? Isn't it the point?

    Otherwise, just go with NY state average and there is no need for everyone to post here.
     
  5. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    If two homes use the same utility and are in the same plan rate, then the cost to run that EV a mile is the same IF the marginal cost/kWh is reported.
     
  6. Michael33

    Michael33 Member

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    This is getting kind of tiresome. Since utilities charge for delivery in different ways, then the reporting form should either factor in delivery automatically for each utility, or should ask for both basic rate and delivery charges, in which case fewer people will bother to respond.

    Getting back to the original question, as I understand it: A rough mental calculation tells me that, ignoring delivery costs, it takes about $2.25 to "fill" my Leaf, giving it the equivalent of about one gallon of gasoline. (This includes charger losses.) Add in all the other charges, and it costs us about $3.13 to 'fill" the car. Think of it as a car that gets 85MPG but only holds a gallon of "gas."
     
  7. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    It matters when choosing between on-grid and off-grid. But once the choice is made to be on-grid, that fee becomes a sunk cost, not relevant to incremental consumption.
    That is why, with such rate structures, one should report the upper and lower bounds.
     
  8. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    The debate is if marginal cost should be used because the basic charge should be distributed evenly.

    If on-grid is chosen, the basic charge should be distributed evenly. Otherwise, do you consider microwave kWh incremental? How about hair dryer? Should light bulbs take all the sunk cost hit?

    Sunk cost should be shared evenly by all the "devices" that draw from it, weighted by kWh.
     
  9. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    It all depends on the purpose of the specific accounting exercise. Yes, it must be counted somewhere, and definitely in the total household energy bill. But no, it does not need to be shared proportionately or even by any specific load.

    It could legitimately be assigned entirely to a single nightlight. When choosing to plug in, or unplug, any single load without altering one's on- or off-grid status, it should be excluded because that single load change will not alter the fixed or sunk cost.
     
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  10. SLOW_RR

    SLOW_RR Member

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    OK, I'll throw out another ??? for the discussion. What about those months when I am producing more electricity (Solar Panels) than I use? I still have to pay the $15,17 (or something like that) for the wires connected to my house....

    If the spreadsheet is going to have the fixed monthly cost in it. I would rather have it be listed as a separate item and not part of the cost per kWh for the discussion. To include it in the cost of each kW will make the information basically useless... Just my 2¢
     
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  11. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    The cost is for buying electricity. Selling it should be tracked separately.
     
  12. SLOW_RR

    SLOW_RR Member

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    OK.... I guess I wasn't clear in what I was saying. I wasn't talking about selling of electricity... I was talking about how to get a usable figure for comparisons.

    Prior to putting the panels on the roof I historically used 6900 kWh of power per year. The panels produce (installers estimate) 4700 kWh per year so now I purchase about 2200 kWh per year. If I pay a fixed cost of $15/month and 11¢ per kWh for both the delivery and purchase then:

    I pay 12 x $15 = $180 per year in fixed fees

    Before the solar panels: 6900 x $.11 = $759 for the cost of total kWh.
    $759 + $180 = $939 per year divided by the 6900 kWh used = $.136 per kWh

    After adding the solar panels: 2200 x $0.11 =$242 for the cost of total kWh.
    $242 + $180 = $422 per year divided by the 2200 kWh used/purchased = $0.192 per kWh

    If I buy 0 kWh in a month the cost per kWh now is ∞.

    That is why I think the fixed cost of connecting to the house should be listed but not included in the cost per kWh. Both are valuable info to know, but when both are put into the equation it can alter the perception of what electric costs in an area without being really correct for most people. There are months where I only buy 10 kWh which means my cost per kWh would be $1.61 if everything is used in the calculation.
     
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  13. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Don't they give you the kWh credited you from solar panels?

    Calculate the cost based on kWh you pulled (bought) from the grid and do not combine it with kWh credited (sold) from solar panels.
     
  14. SLOW_RR

    SLOW_RR Member

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    I did! It's called net metering. I now buy about 2,200 kWh of power from the grid a year...

    "After adding the solar panels: 2200 x $0.11 =$242 for the cost of total kWh.
    $242 + $180 = $422 per year divided by the 2200 kWh used/purchased = $0.192 per kWh"
    I would still be using 6900 kWh total per year but during each day (when the sun is shining) only the power over what I am currently using would be put into the grid from my system. The total electric I use would be what I actually purchase from the grid (after net metering) plus the amount I actually use from my panels... About 6,900kWh. When you do that and say this is what electric costs per kWh here in the Finger Lakes Region of NYS it will be totally different from what my next door neighbor using the exact same amount of total power would get when they do the math.

    Therefore to be able to add up what power costs in this area, my house would not give a true reflection of the cost per kWh if the fixed costs are added in to the total before doing the figuring! If the "fixed costs" are kept separate then anyone (even those without an advanced degree in Calculus, which I don't have... I'm a musician so I can only count to 4) can easily see where they stand in the greater world of buying electricity!
     
  15. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    I was saying don't net it. If yours is net metering, does the utility bill give you the breakdown?

    If not, how would you verify how many kWh your solar panels generated?

    Say, there is no way to get the breakdown, I would divide the fixed cost by 2. Half for pulling from grid and the other half for pushing from the panels. They both need to share the fixed cost to tie to the grid.
     
  16. SLOW_RR

    SLOW_RR Member

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    1. Yes, NYSEG gives me the breakdown of the two meters... (meter 1 is the amount I pull from the grid, meter 2 is the amount I put into the grid). Using the full reading of what I pull from the grid is not an accurate way to figure my electric costs. Totally irrelevant as it doesn't include the power I use directly from my system. What I pay for is the difference between what I pull from the grid and the amount I put into the grid... Net Metering... I know that I buy about 2,200 kWh from the grid. That cost is (was) about 11¢ per kWh, exactly the same as it was when I bought 6,900 kWh from the grid.

    2. The Company that installed the panels has a website that will give me exactly how much energy and power the panels generated each day and each month and each year. I can also go down cellar and read the meter on the Inverter to get that info if I want. Again that will not change the math for my cost per kWh compared to what the neighbor gets. I'm assuming we are trying to show what the "normal" or "average" user would be paying per kWh...

    3. The utility charges me the connection fee.. Period! They do not "share the fixed cost to tie to the grid". I pay it whether I am pulling or pushing electric. LOL! I see what you are saying, but.....

    I still go with my earlier opinion that the "fixed costs" should be listed but not figured in the cost per kWh. That is the most accurate and honest way to figure electric costs. That way the reader knows what it costs to hook up to the grid each month and what the actual electricity used will cost them in this area. Much easier and accurate to figure what the amount of electric you would be paying for would cost if you lived in such or such a place.
     
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  17. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    My last month bill. It was $21.88 for 31 kWh of electricity. That's 71 cents per kWh if I include everything.

    Good thing it will be the last bill I will pay them.

    IMG_20140218_183609.jpg
     
  18. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    USB, that is one nasty bill

    I looked up the tariff sheet for ConEd, and it is nothing like your bill. Even the TOU on-peak in the summer is less!

    What is going on ?

    Actually, would you mind posting the bill before this one ? Alternatively, the kWh used and total bill cost would work too.
     
  19. Redpoint5

    Redpoint5 Senior Member

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    I thought that bill was for Hawaii until I read USB is from NY. It's very commendable that despite having 7x my rate, USB still had a lower bill!
     
  20. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Note, that is not a full billing cycle. It is for just 6 days, from the regular meter read date to a meter estimate on what appears to be his final occupancy date.
     
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