Cost to charge battery in "Charge Mode"

Discussion in 'Prime Fuel Economy & EV Range' started by ride43, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. ride43

    ride43 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2017
    25
    3
    0
    Location:
    Walnut Creek, CA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I imagine there is no way to get a pure scientific answer to this question. I was just curious what people had experienced. My understanding with charge mode is that that the ICE will run at a higher RPM than normally necessary to drive the car, with the extra going to charge the battery. The question is how much fuel is being burned to run these extra RPM's to charge the battery.

    To fill the battery to the 28 mile range in this mode how much fuel will be burned. Would it cost me say 35 mpg of the 55mpg range in Hybrid mode to charge the battery and then in turn only get 28 miles of electric driving back? I would imagine there would be a loss and that this wouldn't be economical. However, I really enjoy driving in EV mode and wouldn't mind sacrificing some of the fuel economy to have the option to drive in EV more when on trips away from charging options.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    88,730
    39,667
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    there is a thread here, i think the conclusion was around 10% extra gas, but it may depend on your speed and the terrain.
     
  3. ride43

    ride43 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2017
    25
    3
    0
    Location:
    Walnut Creek, CA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Thanks, as a followup in that other thread was there any talk on stress to the engine running at higher rpm's while charging? Is this a concern at all?
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    88,730
    39,667
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    no, as always, toyota keeps everything within the parameters of longevity, efficiency and reliability.
     
    HypersonicPrime likes this.
  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    41,079
    12,635
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    He uses charge mode near the end.

     
    bruceha_2000 likes this.
  6. Sddunn

    Sddunn New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2018
    19
    8
    0
    Location:
    Nanaimo
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Premium
    Very cool but how is he getting 60 km per charge I like to think I’m light on the pedal and I don’t use ac and mine only says 42 km on a full charge !
     
  7. robert benoit

    robert benoit Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2014
    7
    7
    0
    Location:
    Montrial Qc Canada
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    I get regularly 52 km
     
  8. Sddunn

    Sddunn New Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2018
    19
    8
    0
    Location:
    Nanaimo
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Premium
    Does it tell you that when you start out ? Mine says at best 43 km
     
  9. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    41,079
    12,635
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    It depends on the terrain and traffic and how you're able to use the hybrid system to eek out every last km.

    For example, if the conditions are right, in my 2010 Prius, I can get 3.8L/100km on the highway. If I use cruise control, it would be 4.7L/100km. (this is 80-100km/h limits. At 110km/h, it's closer to 5.0 or 5.1L/100km).

    So, with the Prime, I suspect how hard you accelerate, brake, how long you can glide or coast will factor into the range. (Oh and climate use too...).

    Have you seen this review? He did it on the Island too (Victoria to Jordan River). He got more than the listed 40km range (including accelerating onto the freeway in EV mode). Note that traffic appeared to be light.

     
  10. bb4srv

    bb4srv Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    131
    90
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    My anecdotal experience is when traveling on highway speed (100-120kmh) and charge mode, i get around 10% charge for approximately 10 mins or so of travel. So around 1% per minute.

    Based on a COST FOR COST analysis:

    At 100kmh = 1.6km per minute; So is around 16kms travel for 10% charge; at approx 5.5L/100km; at 16kms = 0.88L gas used

    $1.60 per L gas = $1.41 for 10% charge; Charge capacity at 6.6kwh = 0.66kwh charged from the Charge Mode

    Therefore:
    based on current gas prices it cost about $2.14 per 1 kwh charge; $14.10 for full charge

    Whereas, my local electricity cost is $0.13 per 1 kwh charge; $0.86 for full charge

    so using the charge mode is 1,639x more expensive then using the plug. BUT this also utilize your travel time&distance from using the charge mode.

    To truly know the difference, I estimate the efficiency is around 4-4.5L/100kms without charge mode. So the difference is around 1L/100kms; recalculating everything is around 0.16L per 10% charge; $0.26 for 10% charge = $2.60 for 6.6kwh (100%) charge; = 300x more expensive for charge mode.

    Or equivalently at 10% EV is around 4kms travel; so you're paying variance gas cost at $0.26 per 4kms distance range versus $0.09 in electricity cost.

    All prices in Canadian

    Based on EFFICIENCY analysis:

    So using the same variables

    Charge mode is 16km + 4km = 20 kms range for 10minutes drive at 100kmh for 10% gain in battery

    which is 0.88L per 20kms = 4.4L per 100kms

    Non charge mode is estimated at 4.5L per 100kms

    Final conclusion: it is parity for the total distance whether you use charge-mode or not. Using the charge-mode "gives you the perception" of ability to "save" but is really not, if not cost you 300x more than just pure plugin.

    So there's no advantages to using the charge mode.
     
    #10 bb4srv, May 25, 2018
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
    Tideland Prius and bisco like this.
  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    41,079
    12,635
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    @bwilson4web did a calculation too. I think his conclusion was to use CHG Mode at lower speeds (like 80-90km/h) instead of 110-120km/h. Your 100km/h analysis kinda splits the results for efficiency/cost vs. EV distance gained.

    What if you include the last part of your journey where you can travel 16km at the end vs. 16km in HV mode?
     
Loading...