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Critical Thinking 201.....

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by ETC(SS), Feb 1, 2024.

  1. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Goes to show you ... great things can be done for our country by leadership of questionable personality. True - ever since Israel's 2nd king.
    .
     
  2. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I'm not suggesting that actual positive results wouldn't earn somebody fame.

    But I'm living in the reality where you can now score 80% as much fame without doing any of the work.
     
  3. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    Play Nuremberg rally tapes 24/7. Or at least as much as “ border.” At least some aren’t writing “boarder” anymore. Not here. Critical thinking- venting combo thread.
     
  4. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    I would agree a strong leader could step in and immediately correct the current situation. The immediate action could occur from executive orders and activation of the military along the border as well as a declaration of a National Emergency. Once this temporary step was implemented, he could then visit the Congress and demand action from them for a permanent countermeasure within two weeks or the entire Congress would be then sent and housed in military barracks in Texas with daily update meetings for Texas Governor Abbott, any major city Mayor who was being affected by this situation and the American people until an acceptable solution was crafted and passed.
    I think the President would be shocked how many Americans would praise him and support this action.
     
    #24 John321, Feb 2, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2024
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Does the Article II person get to say where the Article I folks meet? Can't say I've carefully checked on that specific question.

    I see the Art II person does get to "convene" them, "on extraordinary occasions", and does get to pick their time of adjournment if they can't agree on it themselves.

    Critical venting?

    Ventable thinking?
     
  6. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    The downside of advocating for a strong leader is when that strong leader decides that you're the one who needs to housed a certain way.

    It's just too big of a thing to risk, IMO.
     
  7. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    It would appear that that would be MOST of them.
    Governor Abbott is another popular leader whose ingenious solution was to APPEAR to make HIS problem OUR problem.
    What most people do not understand is that once persons appearing at the border get their various 'I-forms' they ACTUALLY HAVE travel documents and get to go wherever they want to.
    Mostly their destinations lie in.........'any major cities' that start with 'Sanctuary.'

    Opinions are beginning to vary on that, mostly among those mayors who want to keep their job.
    People in DC are also VERY worried about poll numbers.
    No.
    Not the national polls - although they look pretty hideous too but rather in some of the battleground states.

    Sometimes doing nothing or APPEARING to do nothing is a larger risk.
     
    #27 ETC(SS), Feb 2, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2024
    John321 likes this.
  8. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    #28 John321, Feb 2, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2024
  9. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    We already got the warning and dodged the illegal outcome on Jan 6 of such, in their minds, leaders.
    Borders borders borders, play the Nuremberg rally tapes. It looks like he is introducing a raised fist salute instead of the open hand now. A lot of good people noticed it.
     
  10. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    What a shame some would use a tragic situation to expound their own political nonsense

    A human tragedy for citizens and immigrants and some use it to ferment their own personal political
    nonsense with no ability to be able to empathize with the suffering people are going through.

    Our country sorely needs solutions and all some what to do is promote their brand of biases and personal hatred.

    Migrants and the crisis we are having in our country is not political - so sorry to disappoint you - it is a human tragedy both for our country and the migrants.

    We need Leadership! not political gamesmanship or name calling - what a disappointment our country has devolved into this and what a letdown for so many promising young people with possibly bright futures who have to watch grownups who should know better spout off nonsense when there are real problems to work on together to solve for a better world.
     
    #30 John321, Feb 2, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2024
  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I completely agree that exploiting tragic migrant situations for political gamesmanship does seem shameful.
     
  12. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I think you skipped right over it in your own post.

    The most visible and effective leaders for a very wide swath of Americans are their schoolteachers. The right investments in staffing and supporting education will pay incredible dividends later. It won't be a fast fix, but it'll be worth it.
     
  13. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    Well big boy got caught with illegals working for him, isn’t that a border problem unsolved. Imagine if the current President had illegals employed himself, omg. At least a hundred investigations and a few impeachments.
     
  14. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I originally picked this up from a news article long long ago, I think regarding a meat packing plant, but mentioning that it happens with other companies too. Here are more recent items that popped up on a quick search, claiming annual net Social Security contributions by illegals that they are unable to collect upon, as $12Billion and $13 Billion, respectively:

    10 Social Security Myths That Refuse to Die

    "Myth #6: Undocumented immigrants drain Social Security
    The facts:...

    There is evidence that undocumented workers actually improve Social Security's bottom line. Some do obtain Social Security numbers under false pretenses, and payroll taxes are withheld from their wages even though they are not eligible to later collect benefits. A report by Social Security actuaries said that undocumented immigrants made a net contribution of around $12 billion to the program in 2010 and that their earnings would likely continue to “benefit the financial status” of Social Security."

    Thank an illegal migrant for Social Security not coming up shorter sooner than expected

    "You might want to thank an illegal migrant worker — at least the majority of them — for helping keep Social Security afloat.

    They are infusing $13 billion a year into the pay-as-you-go program. That’s the conclusion of various think tanks based on a report issued a few years back by the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration.

    That $13 billion represents collectively what illegal immigrants working as employees and the businesses that hire them pay annually to Social Security based on a payroll tax that is split 50-50 between worker and employer.

    The New American Economy Think Tank cites data that shows 11 million undocumented migrants that are in the United States that have no legal authorization to work. That said, an estimated 8 million do work.
    ...
    Many of the illegal migrants who are working do so using fake Social Security numbers or Social Security numbers they borrow from someone else.

    And while they and their employers pay into the system, the illegal immigrants cannot legally collect benefits as the eight digit number that is sent into the government isn’t tied to a legally established Social Security account in their name.

    This happens because the E-Verify process is not required of the vast majority of employers — basically are among smaller business of 20 or so less workers — that provide 88 percent of this nation’s jobs. ..."



    Though I misunderstood on the income tax side. It turns out that illegal immigrants can file tax returns and get refunds by using an ITIN, Individual Tax Identification Number. Several sources indicate that roughly half of illegal workers are believed to file returns, for reasons such as showing good moral character for later citizenship applications. Those who don't file despite having had estimated taxes withheld, forego any refunds.

    Undocumented immigrants are paying their taxes today, too | CNN
     
  15. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    The only way illegal immigrants can pay unrecoverable payroll taxes is if they cosplay a legal immigrant or citizen.

    Besides..... SSDI.
    These benefits, which are larger than the retirement benefit are absolutely payable for MOST immigrants - some rightfully and some not.
    According to dot.gov the following non green card holders CAN draw SS benefits......
    • Lawfully admitted for permanent residence.
    • Granted conditional entry.
    • Paroled into the United States.
    • Admitted as a refugee.
    • Granted asylum.
    • An illegal whose removal is being withheld.

    • A Cuban or Haitian Entrant.
    • an Amerasian Immigrant.
    • Admitted as an Afghan or Iraqi Special Immigrant, humanitarian parolee or Afghan Non-Special Immigrant Parolee.
    • Admitted as a Ukrainian humanitarian parolee

    SSDI is only about 12% of the outlay and even the incredibly huge number of parolees that have been injected into the system do not account for a majority of those SSDI payouts - but we can agree that the system would be more adequately funded if migrants were given the ability to work legally make payroll and income tax contributions without people having to guess at the leakage contributions from fraudulent.

    The REAL reason that illegals migrate to "sanctuary cities' is that they are eligible (sometimes rightfully) for state and local benefits over and above those granted by the federal government, and generally speaking, not allowing people free travel within the US just because you happen to be non-white or non-rich is patently illegal.

    THAT means that this is a self-licking lollipop.
    BLUE city mayors are going to start demanding some form of action sooner rather than later.

    MSM can jujitsu this into the RNC not wanting to solve the problem - but if the 'best deal we can get' allows thousands of parolees into the country every day then the smartest thing that the RNC can do would be to publish the deal, if it ever gets written down.

    Release of suspects accused of beating NYPD officers provokes outrage

    [​IMG]
     
    #35 ETC(SS), Feb 3, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2024
  16. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    The story I saw at yahoo was titled 5 of the immigrants that attacked 2 NYC Police Officers skipped bail and took a bus to California on the US taxpayers dime. Or something close to that. Par for the course these days from what I'm seeing just scanning titles of stories.
     
  17. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    According to the articles I linked, and several others, that is exactly what large numbers of them do.

    The 'cosplay' part is necessary for employers paying above the table, as most large employers must, to show books and tax records with 'plausible deniability' about employing illegals. Of course it isn't really plausible overall, but with very sparse tax enforcement resources, and getting sparser every time anti-tax politicians hold power, it still works for most. Several of the articles alleged that this even covers a majority of undocumented workers.

    One article also alleged that the employers with lesser scruples even serve as brokers to "rent" out IDs of legal citizens. Illegal worker gets paid under a legal SSN, boss and legal citizen share some "rent" (bribe) on that ID, and legal citizen's Social Security record gets padded with extra reported earnings without having to actually work, boosting future benefits.
     
  18. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    ^ So, in other words modern day slavery.....
    Or at least child labour laws c-1931.

    Tell me....what do parole papers look like in 2024 and what benefits do they provide for the holder - AND perhaps the owner of a meat processing plant.
    How '18' do you have to 'look' if travel papers are enforced by 1930's security measures?

    I sold greeting cards door to door when I was 10.
    A former associate set concrete forms when he was 'big for his age' at 13 - full time and never finished the 8th grade.
    We're not even getting into the REALLY UGLY parts of human exploitation on the North American continent, and NOT all of these are people who look young for their age at a truck stop or are working at an illegal pot farm out west.

    Do we REALLY get to use a diet pill solution to solve this problem?


    They didn't 'skip bail' because there was NO bail.
    HOWEVER (comma!) they did not use tax-payer bucks to leave the jurisdiction.
    They used tax-payer bucks to get to NYC.

    if I'm accurately informed there are not-for-profits that provide for bus-fare to points west, and these entities do not cooperate with the NYPD.
     
    #38 ETC(SS), Feb 5, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2024
  19. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Dad lasted for nearly ¾ of a century after WW II. The Pacific theater for 17 yr old marines had a tendency to mess you up. Nowadays recovery benefits to help un-mess you up , seem to be even less & less accessible based on so many vets sleeping on the streets. The thought of free airfare to get deeper embedded into the USA ... traveling money - as well as having to hire more & more teachers that are bilingual - find housing ... while those who served & gave a lot to the country are not cared for? Jeez - we are already failing to take care of many of our own.
    .
     
    John321 likes this.
  20. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    That is actually a balanced view of priorities and certainly one on the issues that should be addressed in controlling migration.

    You are an exception in this day and age to have a balanced view of an issue.

    If you would express that view in public expect the cancel culturist to go absolutely ballistic. Bringing up anything connected to the military is enough to send them over the edge, add in controlling immigration and you very well may have them foaming at the mouth!