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Dead battery. Again.

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by blip, Nov 24, 2016.

  1. blip

    blip New Member

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    I bought my 2004 Prius two months ago.

    A few weeks ago it after I had it turned off for just a few minutes, I started it up, and the whole bottom row of maintenance lights came on (on the dash). The engine didn't seem to turn on. I powered off, tried again, and it started. The clock had been reset, however, and the GPS DVD had to reload.

    There were a few similar occurences in the few days after that, with the same oddities repeating themselves, but not all in the same occurrence. One day the smart key wouldn't unlock the car anymore, and the car wouldn't start at all. (Red light on the smart key would still come on when I depressed the unlock or lock button.) Thirty minutes later both worked again, although clock and GPS were reset again.

    I basically ignored the problem and even thought it might have gone away, but then my car just flat-out wouldn't start a few nights ago. I called roadside service for a jump, drove the car on the highway for 30 minutes to recharge the battery and got JUST to the fully recharged point (literally by seconds) before I had to get home to my child.

    I've been watching the trip info screen the past few days, and the battery never gets up to fully charged. Mostly I drive in town with frequent stopping--no more than 5 or 10 minutes of a stretch of driving these past few days (after the 30-minute highway recharge).

    There have been no more strange occurrences in these past few days, and I also read that I may have caused my battery problem (pre-jumpstart) by not turning off my headlights before powering off the car. Since the jumpstart I haven't done that; I intentionally turn them off before powering off the car or opening the door.

    Today, however, the car wouldn't start again. It's currently dead until a friend can jumpstart it tomorrow. I'll give it another 20-30 minutes on the highway or until the trip info screen shows me the battery is fully charged.

    But...what's going on? The battery was supposedly brand new when I bought the car two months ago.

    Did I destroy it by leaving my headlights on so many times? Any bets on whether or not I'm going to have to invest in a new battery?

    What's my best course of action here? Take it to a dealer? Or could a non-dealer service shop help me out?

    I'd appreciate knowing what the most economical steps to take would be here. Money is a concern right now.

    Thank you!
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome!
    if it's really only 2 months old, then maybe you just need to put a smart charger on it.
    driving for thirty minutes on the highway in't enough to recharge it.

    another possibility is the connections at the battery and chassis, perhaps some thing is loose or corroded.

    keep in mind, you have two batteries. the battery indicator on the dash is for the hybrid battery, which collects regenerated energy for future use and starting the engine. it rarely will show full.

    you also have a 12 volt battery, which powers up the computers so the hybrid battery can start the engine.
    it's the 12v which is going dead, and it's a possibility that your short trips are causing it, and you may need to keep a battery maintainer on it. or it might just be from leaving the headlights on, but there's no need to shut them off before powering the car down.
    the first question is, which battery is new?
     
    #2 bisco, Nov 24, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2016
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  3. blip

    blip New Member

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    OK, great. Learning here. I am not knowledgable about cars and certainly not about the inner workings of a hybrid. I'll check the date code and report back!

    How long would I have to drive it on the highway to recharge it?
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    probably 8 hours. please re read my post, i tried to edit it for clarity. it can be a bit too much info to take in all at once.
     
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  5. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Your car sat on a car lot for a while before you bought it. While it sat the battery died. When u came along they jumped it but it was already cooked as it sat dead for a while and sulphated. It went dead again and you jumped it and then then it went dead again.
    Replace the 12 volt battery its done. And for god's sake stop jumping it. There's hundreds of posts about jump start damage to a Prius on this site only surpassed by the thousands of posts about why is my 12 volt battery dead?

    Driving it on the highway will not recharge the battery very well. And if its sulphated like yours, its just a waste of gas. It needs to sit on a charger for quite a while. But that won't fix your battery.
    Read the owners manual.
     
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  6. hchu1

    hchu1 Active Member

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    To confirm Ed's post for yourself, you should take your car to AutoZone or the like and have them test the 12v battery. It is located in the well right behind the right rear tire. The battery will be north of $150, since you indicated that your car knowledge is limited, the dealership OEM battery would be a good choice.

    Oh, and to reiterate Ed's statement about jump starts in the Prius, if done wrong your problems will likely be much worse. A blown inverter is very expensive and a headache to even the most knowledgeable. Spend some time on this forum researching your Prius and it will help you become more comfortable with it's inner workings. Good luck.
     
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  7. blip

    blip New Member

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    Hi Ed. I appreciate the feedback, but I don't believe this is what happened.

    The mechanic I bought the car from explained that what you described had recently happened, so he has replaced the battery immediately before I took possession of the car.

    I have tried getting in touch with him to verify further details of what happened, which battery was replaced, etc. I am humbled in my ignorance here.

    It sounds to me like I need to have the 12v battery tested as suggested above. In the meantime, I don't know what to do other than jumpstart it to get it to the nearest Autozone.

    Roadside Service (not via Toyota) is who instructed me to drive the car on the highest for 20 minutes earlier in the week after jumpstarting it. I would assume they know how to safely jump my vehicle, but perhaps I shouldn't assume...
     
  8. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

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    Yes you need to jumpstart it to get somewhere to get the 12V battery tested. Unless you want to remove the 12V battery and only take it there. Yes they did jump start it correctly as it did get going. But each time you jump start it there’s a change of something going wrong.
     
  9. ct0304

    ct0304 New Member

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    If you end up needing a hybrid battery, call Matt from Texas Hybrid Batteries

    SM-N910P using PriusChat mobile app
     
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  10. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    1. If the 12V battery is sufficiently depleted so that you need a jumpstart, 20 minutes of driving is not adequate. The Prius is very slow to charge the battery, and 8-12 hours is more like what is required.
    2. You do not actually have to drive the car anywhere. You can just leave the car sitting on your driveway, in READY mode, and that will charge the battery at the same rate as if you were driving 70 mph on the freeway. You have to consider the issues associated with leaving your car sitting in the driveway while turned on and whether that is safe/legal in your locale or not.
    3. It would be unwise to assume that all roadside service personnel know how to correctly jump start the Prius. Some have made that assumption and found it was faulty, which resulted in a blown inverter and a four-digit repair bill. In your case you were lucky.
    4. Leaving the headlights on is generally not a problem if you exited the car via the driver's side door, as the lights should turn off automatically. However if you managed to leave the lights on regardless, that will certainly deplete the 12V battery.
    5. Hopefully by now you understand that the battery state of charge gauge in the MFD is for the high voltage traction battery, which is not the same as the 12V battery that you are having a problem with. Hence the SOC gauge on the MFD will tell you nothing about the condition of the 12V battery.
     
    #10 Patrick Wong, Nov 25, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
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  11. blip

    blip New Member

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    #1: OK, got it. Thanks for the detail.
    #2: Interesting. I could try this.
    #3: Thankfully!
    #4: I read somewhere on this forum that leaving the lights on could drain the battery, even once the lights themselves turn off. Seemed strange, but I didn't have a better explanation for why a new battery would be down to nil.
    #5: Yes, got it. Thank you!

    I want to say thanks to all of you who have replied here so far. I really appreciate the guidance.
     
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  12. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    You need to expunge this idea from your memory, and go with your instincts, It is not only strange, but ridiculous. Once the lights are off, they are off.

    Someone probably made an observation, added 2+2 to get 7 and published their findings on the "interwebs".

    If there is, in fact, a parasitic draw, there will be other reasons for it, which will come to light upon further diagnostics. But the more likely scenario is the obvious one, your 12 V battery is at end of life and cannot hold a charge (even though it was 'new' 2 months ago, if you can believe the person who told you this). If this proves to be the case, replacing it, hopefully under warranty, will fix the problem.
     
    #12 dolj, Nov 25, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
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  13. blip

    blip New Member

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    Quick update: Jump-started yesterday. Then had the 12v tested. It was at 300 amps. (OK, right?) Found a jiggly connector to the battery and a bolt that was missing that would help hold the battery in place. The great staff at my local Advance Auto Parts fixed it up. Hopefully that was the problem!

    An aside: is there any truth to the idea that the parking brake should be on when parked to preserve the battery life?! Roadside Service guy told me...
     
  14. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    No truth. However you should set the parking brake when the car is parked, just as a safety measure. Then you are not relying just on the transaxle's parking pawl to hold the car in position.

    I suggest you make sure the 12V battery is fully-charged, notwithstanding any tests that may have been performed.
     
  15. blip

    blip New Member

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    How do I make sure it's charged other than having it tested?
     
  16. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Hook up a battery charger.
     
  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Charge, with something like this, a 4~amp smart charger:

    upload_2016-11-26_11-2-17.png

    Then check the voltage one of these, a digital multi meter:

    upload_2016-11-26_11-3-32.png

    Or better, this'll give you the voltage, and assess the Cranking Amps, basically the health of the battery, and give you a rudimentary report and a verdict: "good", good but charge", or "replace":

    upload_2016-11-26_11-7-14.png

    Most importantly: read up. Lot's of battery maintenance resources on the 'net.
     
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  18. Yaesu

    Yaesu Member

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    The 300 amps was probably the load they placed on the battery. Do you know the battery voltage when you arrived at Advanced Auto Parts? The loose connector to the battery certainly could give you difficulty starting and if it was very loose I could intermittently disconnect the battery from the vehicle.
     
  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    The 300 amps is likely the as-tested cold cranking amps, which is not bad for the OEM battery. The loose connection could indeed be the problem.
     
  20. johnjohnchu

    johnjohnchu Active Member

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    Checking 12v Battery Health
    You can easily check out your battery status/charging system using the MFD in maintenance mode. No tools required.
    1. Get your Prius into "Accessory Mode" - Press the power button without touching the brake pedal.
    2. Put the MFD into "Maintenance Mode" - Press and hold the "Info" button on the MFD while turning the headlights on and off 4 times.
    3. Press the "Menu" field on the screen.
    4. Press the "Display Check" field.
    5. Press the "Vehicle Signal Check" field.
    6. The 12v battery voltage will be one of the items listed, it should be above 12 volts. The reading should be about 12.4 to 12.8 Volts (normal for an unloaded battery). If it is lower, either the battery needs replacement or the charging system is not functioning correctly - see step 7.
    7. Put a small load on the battery by pressing the power button again without touching the brake pedal. The voltage should stay above 12v. If less than 12.0V the battery is not well, or there is a fault or unusual load somewhere. If it drops significantly, you need a new battery.
    8. Now get your Prius into "Ready Mode" - step on the brake and press the power button. The battery voltage should immediately rise to 13.8 volts (Your Prius uses constant voltage charging). If it is lower, the battery will never charge; if it is much above 14 volts, your 12v battery will get cooked. The battery is now charging at about 14V. If less than 13.6V or more than 14.4 there may be a problem with the charging circuit.
    9. Shutting the car down will reset the system back to normal operation.
     
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