Dealer said transmission oil can't be drained and refilled

If you look in your owners' manual you'll see that Toyota does not list any recommendation for periodic fluid exchange. That doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea, but the other end of it is that the dealer service people don't really have a plan for it. It's not on their menu, so to speak.

Their mechanics are all quite capable of doing a drain and fill, it's just weird because they've all been trained that it isn't needed, there is no official procedure, and they'd have to get creative about how to list it on the bill- probably just time and materials.

Honestly if you really want it done, take it to an independent mechanic with a few bottles of genuine toyota WS fluid sourced from the dealer. You'll pay less overall, and everyone involved is likely to be more comfortable.

Probably a good idea to line up a good indy mechanic anyway- taking an older car like that back to the dealer is expensive!

Regarding the difference between drain and fill and flush: there isn't one, from the car's point of view. All you need is drain and fill, if you even need that.

 

It is time to find a dealer with a clue or a good hybrid mechanic.

There is no flush (other than your wallet) in any Prius, just drain and fill.

The 'old wife's tale' about ruining an automatic transmission by changing the ATF does not apply to any Prius as they lack clutch packs ànd valve body shift logic. If they don't exist, they can't fail.

This discusses the why's, you just need to know that your Prius c lacks a torque converter, clutch packs and a valve body, so those issues can't affect you.

 

While it’s true that there’s no scheduled interval for it in the United States, the Repair Manual (more info) does give a procedure, under Drivetrain: P510 Hybrid Transmission/Transaxle: Hybrid Transaxle Fluid: Replacement. Basically, the fluid is drained and refilled three times, with the engine operated in maintenance mode after the first and second times. One edition of Toyota’s Flat Rate Manual allows 1.1 labor hours for this (operation number 002359N, NHP10 series).

In Canada, the Owner’s Manual Supplement (PDF) does call for replacing the automatic transmission fluid every 72 months or 96,000 km, but only when “Towing a trailer, using a camper or car top carrier” (page 26).

 

Good to know. I was paraphrasing what a random dealer technician told me when I asked. Of course it does make sense that there is a procedure for it, since certain (probably very rare) repairs would normally involve drain & fill.

 

there's really no such thing as a flush. speak to the service manager. tell him what you want and why.

if he argues nonsense, tell him you don't care, you would really like to have the fluid changed.
they will probably give in, most do when pressed.

there really is no such thing as a flush, you just want a drain and fill. shouldn't be more than $150. or so.
10-20 years, you need to go through your maintenance schedule carefully and follow the time/km intervals, whichever comes first.

 

For the transaxle fluid replacement the drill is basically:

remove fill bolt

remove drain bolt (fluid drains)

Install drain bolt

Pour in new fluid, till it starts coming back out (with car level)

Install fill bolt

 

Go to an independent shop. Take 4 quarts of WS and two 18mm crush washers. Do not let them use any other transmission fluid.

 

First off; It's the dealer, so you know they're wrong! Just kidding....

Lifetime fluid: translation - the fluid will last until the car is out of warranty, NOT your lifetime or the car's lifetime. If the transmission should fail outside of warranty - I'm sure the dealership will be more than happy to replace it and lighten your bank account at the same time.

flush vs change: There's a big difference and I've actually seen shops use a turkey baster to suck the old brake fluid out of the reservoir and replace it with new brake fluid and call it a brake fluid flush - I call that Fraud. That can only be called a brake fluid change; and that's a stretch for me, but it's perfectly legal. If you take your car in for a brake fluid flush and can get the car back in less than an hour; there's a really good chance that only a turkey baster was used.

change the ATF 3x: This is most likely a cut-n-paste from an old automatic transmission manual with a torque converter; to get 90% of the old ATF out of the system. The converter retains about half the ATF in the system; when you "drop the pan"; you're only getting half of it out. This is NOT the case with our CVT; removing the drain plug - removes 95% of the ATF. The other 5% or less is stuck in the cooling loop.

Our ATF serves three main purposes; lube, cool, and remain electrically neutral. As the contaminant levels build up in the ATF, it effects all three of these vital functions. Dirt in a lubricant is never a good thing; causes excessive wear. Did you know "pure" water doesn't conduct electricity; but water with calcium or salt will? Similar action takes place in your ATF, that degrades the electronic motors in your CVT. Cooling, as the contaminate levels build up, the chemical bonds of the ATF has other options and may combine with other substances suspended in the fluid. There is also simple thermo-breakdown of the ATF - your fluid color change.

Hope this answers some of the mysteries around ATF changes...

 

A bit more specifically, the fluid is:

Toyota ATF WS

And for the washers, assuming you’re getting the fluid at a Toyota dealership parts department: ask for the transaxle fill and drain bolt washers.

 

@Species5618w If the inside of your brake drum is rusty, where it shouldn't be rusty - that would be a concern to me. There shouldn't be any rust where the brake shoes and drum meet; otherwise your rear brakes aren't doing their job and 99% of your braking is on your front wheels only. This increases stopping distances and puts extra wear and tear on your front brakes and tires.
Unfortunately rear brake shoes adjustments always gets overlooked. Your emergency brake handle should only go up about 3-4 clicks; if your rear brakes are adjusted properly. That's a simple test you can do at the dealership, just before you drive off. Unfortunately they (service technicians) can void this test by adjusting the emergency brake cables (tightening them); instead of adjusting the distance between brake shoes and brake drum.
There are auto-adjusters back there, but you have to back out of a driveway daily to activate them - even then there is no guarantee that they will adjust properly. that is why brake inspections are required at every service interval. I've manually adjusted my old PriusC every 25K miles and you feel an immediate difference in stopping power. FWIW; I back out of my driveway daily on a 8% slope; so those brakes get used, yet they don't ever seem to auto adjust properly.

 

The problem is mostly semantics, but it's also employee turnover at the service dept. and the amount of different kinds of cars and technologies used in the cars a dealer service dept. services.

What's a Flush and Refill Service to one Service Adviser or Mechanic is the same service as a Drain and Refill Service to another Service Advisor or Mechanic.

One good way to know the difference ( if there is one ? ) is to get a price quote for both
If they will or can give you a quote for both.
That way you have more info to work with and can get better info about what is right or wrong with a Service as Quoted By any one person or mechanic.

It's very easy to get the service methods for different kinds of cars quoted incorrectly,mostly due to the many different kinds of cars a dealer or independent shop services.

Summarizing here: Generally at the Service Advisor level a transmission Flush and Reflll is the same service as a Drain and Refill, unless the price is different.

It gets more complicated when there is an inexperienced mechanic in the loop working on your car.

 

Dealerships “can” be the last place you want to go, since:

1. Toyota says nothing about transaxle fluid change, in the maintenance schedule.

2. there are Toyota models with conventional automatics, with complex drain/fill procedures, that the dealership is familiar with, and this may have the service writers padding the bill, a mix of inexperience and larceny.

 

Autodex in Vaughan
Bullock City Auto Services in Markham
Haven't been to any of these shops but they were recommended by some GTA Prius owners.

















rius owners, hope this helps!

 

I humbly disagree; While english is my second language - when someone tells me and puts it in writing that they are going to flush my brake-, transmission-, power steering-, coolant-, fluid(s) - I expect them to do so. NOT just empty the reservoir and refill it; that is outright fraud and misleading, not semantics. If there is a communication issue; that is between service writer, mechanic, and management. The service writer is being paid by the dealership and represents the dealership - they should know the difference and so should the mechanic. They would be exposing the dealership to lawsuits and BBB complaints - something the dealership doesn't want and could've easily avoided.

While you did do a very good job in explaining how such a mix-up could've occurred; this kind of childish, excuse making behavior shouldn't be tolerated. This is why good honest mechanics are going out of business, while the guy down the street is offering the "flush" service for half the price - but it's really a reservoir drain & fill; if they bother to do that at all.

When someone takes their car in for the 100K coolant replacement; would it be OK for them to just suck the liter of coolant out of the coolant reservoir, replace it, and call it a coolant flush/replacement?

Sorry for the "soap box" lecture in advance.

 

You can’t fight common usage. It’s frustrating, but if a lot of people mangle an expression, that’s how it is.

 

I have absolutely no issue with the way your presented your take on what possible issues might be encountered while having a car serviced @BiomedO1
There are certainly lots of other issues out there in the wilds of auto service that I haven't been exposed to.
I also agree with @Mendel Leisk and his description of what I believe is a serious issue that only seems to be getting worse. as time goes by.
And thank you @ivanhoe for offering a few shops that you've heard about that others have mentioned with decent review in your and hopefully @Species5618w area.