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Dealing with FUD

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by godzillaismad, Apr 10, 2013.

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  1. godzillaismad

    godzillaismad Member

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    Hi All,

    Haven't posted for some time, but lately I have a pommie and a SAfrican (a Vdub fan) work colleagues giving me all the FUDs they could think of about the Prius, quoting that the battery in the Prius is more environmentally damaging to mine than anything else on earth. In addition, they think that diesel cars would be the way to go and argued that petrol is in abundance, and the fact that mining the battery material would require a diesel truck to transport from the mine to the shipping port, then send to some African countries and back to America, then to Japan for production (sounds familiar? topgear?)

    Another pommie lady work colleague reckons we should all drive euro cars, especially the diesels because it is the best thing since sliced bread (I think she drives a Hyundai xCel, the pommie drives a Dodge Journey and the SA drives a VW Tiguan). Basically, she echoed the same sentiment against the Prius and its battery as the pommie guy. Seems like the people from that part of the world really hated the Prius or think diesel cars the way to go. She also stupid enough the quote the CNW report and stated that Hummer is better for the environment, to which I shot her down with some real FACTS.

    Do you guys have any fact sheet about the production of the battery so I can quote some facts? Or should I just smile back and show them my total petrol bill?
     
    #1 godzillaismad, Apr 10, 2013
  2. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Environmental - Prius Wiki should help.

    It's unfortunate that Top Gear spewed that non-sense (seemed to basically echo the thoroughly debunked CNW junk science) and per The secret behind the hit TV car show "Top Gear" - CBS News, it's seen by 350 million viewers. :(

    The Ford Crown Victoria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia mentioned under related links is an extremely popular car in the US for use as police cars and taxis. There are still a ton of them running around doing such duty since it was discontinued not that long ago.
     
    #2 cwerdna, Apr 10, 2013
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  3. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Have a look in Priuschat, and you'll have something on that.
    And point diesel exhaust smoke as lung cancer driver from World Health Organization papers!
     
    #3 telmo744, Apr 10, 2013
  4. iClaudius

    iClaudius Active Member

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    Lots of good lifecycle environmental comparisons on cars by scientists vs entertainment industry. Prius wins by a substantial margin.
     
    #4 iClaudius, Apr 10, 2013
  5. godzillaismad

    godzillaismad Member

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    Thank you for the informative links.

    Unfortunately, most Aussies/Pommies treat topgear as gospels... this pommie guy thinks just because a topgear episode showed a diesel Audi drove from London to Scotland with one tank is an amazing achievement (~800km). I do that every week, including city driving!

    The Vdub SA driver also pitched in with the Prius hate, said it's a POS without a good reason (maybe because topgear said so?) I reminded him that his Tiguan is no faster than the Prius but shoot out twice as much smogs, and the hugely unreliable DSG gearbox. Then this article came out http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/volkswagen-recalls-almost-400000-cars-20130321-2gifd.html

    The bashing is unabating!
     
    #5 godzillaismad, Apr 10, 2013
  6. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    Nickel opponents often miss two points:

    They point to Sudbury Ontario as being a wasteland due to unsound nickel mining, which is true prior to the 1970s. It is unclear how bad environmental practices into the Fifties were caused by a car not made until the Nineties.
    Inco Superstack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Nickel is used in Chrome plating, as Chromium does not plate well onto steel. So those chrome plated Hummers may have more Nickel than a Prius.
    Chrome plating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
    #6 JimboPalmer, Apr 10, 2013
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  7. car compulsive

    car compulsive Active Member

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    Pardon my ignorance, but what's a Pommie?
     
    #7 car compulsive, Apr 10, 2013
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  8. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    #8 telmo744, Apr 10, 2013
  9. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    All vehicles pollute and use natural resources from before manufacturing through recycle. There is no argument to be won. Just pick your poison and enjoy you ride.
     
    #9 frodoz737, Apr 10, 2013
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  10. kithmo

    kithmo Couch Potato

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    :)
     
    #10 kithmo, Apr 10, 2013
  11. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    Not sure you want to refute old FUDs when there are new ones this Month;
     
    #11 Sergiospl, Apr 10, 2013
  12. godzillaismad

    godzillaismad Member

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    Ahhh, the good ol' Sarah Palin... My pommie lady colleague thought that the battery must be replaced every ten years. I just told her my battery was replaced every 20,000km, and I have done 100,000km, so I went through 5 battery replacements, costing $50,000 in total... she went quiet for a while after that.

    There are people out there slinging muds on whatever they feel like but don't have to be responsible for what's been said... the side effect of free speech?
     
    #12 godzillaismad, Apr 11, 2013
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  13. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    #13 Sergiospl, Apr 11, 2013
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  14. wxman

    wxman Active Member

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    Emissions from any combustion process are harmful, including gasoline engines. IARC (WHO) knew decades ago that extracts of gasoline exhaust were carcinogenic (International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), “DIESEL AND GASOLINE ENGINE EXHAUSTS.” VOL.: 46 (1989) (p. 41)). The main reason that whole gasoline exhaust hasn't been declared a Group 1 ("known") carcinogen is because test subjects expire from acute carbon monoxide poisoning long before the concentration of gasoline PM is any more than a fraction of what diesel exhaust is tested at (factor of about 20).

    Gasoline (and CNG) exhaust PM has also shown to be more mutagenic than diesel exhaust (A. L. Brooks, et al., “A comparison of genotoxicity of automotive exhaust particles from laboratory and environmental sources.” Environmental Mutagenesis, Volume 6, Issue 5).

    Even a report from CARB showed that CNG exhaust had a much higher mutagenic potency than diesel exhaust...


    [​IMG]

    Source: Norman Y. Kado, et al., California Air Resources Board, "Emissions of Toxic Pollutants from Compressed Natural Gas and Ultra-low Sulfur Diesel - Fueled Transit Buses."


    PM emissions from diesel engines have been addressed (DPF). Maybe it's time for particle filters on gasoline and CNG engines?
     
    #14 wxman, Apr 11, 2013
  15. mjones12

    mjones12 Member

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    True, there can be negative side effects with free speech. but it's worth the trouble to be able to counter all the BS with our OWN free speech. Keep up the good fight.
     
    #15 mjones12, Apr 11, 2013
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  16. godzillaismad

    godzillaismad Member

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    That would mean the start of some very expensive servicing when the DPF failed, just like the latest diesels rolled out of Europe. Even though a DPF would needed to be installed, it might work better in a hybrid given the engine don't need too much to run in slow moving traffic, and only require to run while cruising, eliminating the problem of soot not burning off due to the engine not in the right operating temperature.

    I am sure diesel cars have their place, but to blatantly dismissed hybrids and think everyone should drive a diesel is a little short sighted. Throwing FUDs to dimiss an approach is not really the way to have an healthy argument. The amount of Prius/hybrid hates in Australia/UK is incredible, most likely due to the propaganda spewed by someone in the media, sigh...
     
    #16 godzillaismad, Apr 13, 2013
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  17. wheelsup

    wheelsup Junior Member

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    We bought a Prius because it gets over 50 MPG. I don't really care about the environmental aspects (or lack thereof). My daily driver at work burns 350 gallons of an hour with no exhaust system except a tailpipe.
     
    #17 wheelsup, Apr 13, 2013
  18. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    if it wasn't for free speach you wouldn't have this this soapbox to wine from. :)​
     
    #18 spiderman, Apr 13, 2013
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  19. godzillaismad

    godzillaismad Member

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    Point taken.

    I have read through some of the reactions from former Prius haters who ultimately grown to love the Prius, one being this;

    Why I love the Lotus - and the Prius - The Globe and Mail

    Hint for Toyota advertisement; Why don't Toyota invite some of the former Prius haters convert to explain what changed their mind?

    It would be great if I could pick someone here who was a Vdub driver, hated the Prius, and now love it that they can't go back to their Vdub.
     
    #19 godzillaismad, Apr 21, 2013
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  20. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    Well of course if they did that, the ardent vw owner's would say the converted were not really truely believers in the first place. :)

    Until a person drives one of these things themselves, they will never know. Heck, I was going in for a new Camry myself. If the genIII didn't just come out at that very time, it is possible I might have never the Prius for a test drive.
     
    #20 spiderman, Apr 21, 2013
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