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Death Rattle and when erg blocked car almost dies.

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Brandon2333, Apr 15, 2023.

  1. Brandon2333

    Brandon2333 New Member

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    2010 prius with about 210k miles: new EGR valve, cooler cleaned(behind EGR), cleaned intake manifold new pcv valve.

    Current problem: Death rattle on start up and i think while driving.. don't want to test it driving until i know more.
    If I rev the car in neutral after the death rattle on start up it runs fine in neutral.
    I tried blocking the egr valve as seen in this video around the 4:50 mark.
    when i do it, the car still has the death rattle than almost dies, if i try to rev it more it dies more as if its starved for air.

    notes:
    coolant level the same
    Death rattle on start up- every start up, doesn't have to sit.

    Any ideas?
    Thanks!

    Back story:
    Had an occasional death rattle on start up that would last for a few seconds than It'd go away.
    over the past couple weeks the death rattle had gotten stronger in the morning... the other day it had an occasional knock similar to the death rattle at 40 mph. so immediately drove it home about a mile.
    I was thinking spark plug or coil but they've both been semi recently replaced..
    Replaced the EGR valve,cleaned the cooler, intake manifold, and replaced the pcv valve.
    afterwards started the car there was a slight death rattle, took it out to drive it. everything was going fine about a half mile than it was as if it stopped firing on cylinder (idk if it was or wasn't but that's what the engine sounded like) drove 5mph back to my place got it parked in the drive way.
     
    #1 Brandon2333, Apr 15, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2023
  2. Brandon2333

    Brandon2333 New Member

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    solved it. or at least so far.

    I recleaned the intake manifold. the first time i forgot to clean the egr ports in the manifold as seen in this video around the 9:50 mark.


    Thanks for all the other help i see on these forums!
     
  3. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    You really need to check your plugs and engine very well You want to check your plugs especially one and two for any coolant droplets If you see droplets that look like water even little tiny ones on the end of the plug It's probably cooling touch it with your finger touch it to your tongue you know what coolant tastes like probably not well that's it. Now you do anyway very few of these cars get away with the death rattle a few times without something major afterwards so maybe don't travel too far don't do anything too silly until you find out You certainly don't want to be 500 mi from home and find out
     
  4. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Keep us updated
     
  5. Eddie25

    Eddie25 Active Member

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    Spark plugs are very commonly counterfeit in case you are unaware. The counterfeits are worse than the worst copper plugs you could get. If by "semi-recently" you mean like 15-30k miles and you bought them from eBay (or similar) then that's probably it. I don't think aftermarket coils have the best reputation either.

    Edit: LOL, skimmed over the "solved it" post. Still important info for lurkers.
     
  6. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Those ports are probably the most important part of the cleaning process because they don't clog evenly, which I'm convinced stresses the head gasket. Not that the cooler isn't important, too. But they don't directly make the so-called death rattle. That's the head gasket. Or bad plugs or coils.

    As mentioned, you could have issues with counterfeit or off brand plugs/coils. And, if the head gasket has a small leak, it might take a while for the coolant loss to become apparent.
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Say you had a boat with some fancy electronics. Boat springs a leak; and water shorts out the electronics. Then you fix the leak: does that fix the electronics?

    The EGR cleaning was at least 100k overdue.

    The “death rattle”, more succinctly, is (uncompressible) coolant leaking past head gasket into cylinder, making it increasingly difficult for piston to get over Top Dead Centre.

    try boroscope inspection and/or leak-down test.

    any codes?
     
    mypriuscious and Grit like this.
  8. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    A Prius makes such a rattle when it is misfiring for any reason.

    The "death rattle" is what Mendel says it is if a borescope, leakdown, or other specific test shows it to be what Mendel says it is.

    (Even then, the repeating rattle sound that you hear is caused by the misfiring engine, perhaps because of small amounts of leaked coolant, interacting with mechanical lash in the transmission. Once enough coolant leaks in there to actually stop the piston crossing TDC, if you hear that sound, you're not going to hear it many times.)
     
    #8 ChapmanF, Apr 16, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2023
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  9. MikeDee

    MikeDee Senior Member

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    The EGR system doesn't cause a misfire "death rattle" (I wish we'd stop using that non descriptive term) at idle, although if the EGR valve is leaking, maybe it would.
     
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  10. stevecaldwell

    stevecaldwell New Member

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    Do you have a link to How to clean the EGR valve and cooler on a 2012 Type 3 Prius?
     
  11. stevecaldwell

    stevecaldwell New Member

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  12. stevecaldwell

    stevecaldwell New Member

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    So, do you have instructions or video on cleaning the EGR valve and cooler on at 2012 type 3 Prius
     
  13. Brandon2333

    Brandon2333 New Member

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    The Death rattle on start up came back on my 2010 prius with about 215k on it.

    So far I've:
    Replaced the EGR valve
    cleaned out the egr cooler (power washed)
    replaced the spark plugs
    replaced the spark plug coils
    cleaned out the intake cooler. (power washed)

    I don't think I've got a head gasket leak my coolant level is the same and my spark plugs were all dirty.

    is the next step to replace the fuel injectors?

    Thanks!
     
  14. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Why would bad fuel injectors foul up your new spark plugs?
     
  15. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    I believe the next step is to replace the leaking head gasket. :whistle:
     
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  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    It would be best to continue in your previous thread; starting a new one just breaks up the narrative.

    Giving the symptoms a mysterious name (death rattle) doesn’t help. With your miles, symptoms and long neglected EGR, head gasket failure is most likely scenario.

    Again, I’d try leak down test and/or boroscope inspection.
     
    #16 Mendel Leisk, May 22, 2023
    Last edited: May 22, 2023
  17. Brandon2333

    Brandon2333 New Member

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    My apologies on starting a new thread. Going forward I'll keep everything together.
    Looks like I may be doing a head gasket. This will be my first major automotive repair so I may have a few questions. any help will be greatly appreciated!
    Mendel Thank you for the quick links in your signature :D

    stevecaldwell Regarding cleaning the EGR mine was extremely clogged after 200k so I replaced it. I attempted to clean the cooler with compressed air and break cleaner. it wasn't clearing it out... at all... so i had to pull the whole thing out and power wash it.

    for pulling the egr out i used this video at the 15 min mark
     
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  18. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Oven cleaner dissolves the carbon, a pressure washer blows it out.
    You did keep the cooler? They don't wear out, stainless steel...


     
  19. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    A death rattle is produced when a person is near death and is too weak or hypersomnolent to clear or swallow pharyngeal secretions.
    I've heard them and "death rattle" is a VERY descriptive term, most especially if the resultant shaking is caused by a....clogged intake.
    A near-hydrolocked G3 produces a more violent 'shaking and quaking' but the end result is the same.
    Either you get an automotive angioplasty, a heart transplant, or you hear the final 'death rattle.'

    They call it that for a reason.....
     
  20. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    The coolant will start disappearing within two to ten weeks of initial death rattle. Too many jump on the egr and expensive parts cannon to no avail. When it initially goes away for days at a time only to briefly return on a cold start it essentially rules out plugs, coils, injectors or egrs. The leak seals itself off initially. History repeats itself but some have to learn the hard way.
     
    #20 rjparker, May 24, 2023
    Last edited: May 24, 2023
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