Decided to replace my HV battery. About to finish installation. Have I missed anything?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Banksy, Mar 24, 2020.

  1. Banksy

    Banksy Active Member

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    So I posted back in February about my HV battery situation.

    Boiled down to this.

    Bought a gen 2 prius

    Battery had been changed

    Battery had a warranty

    When the "Hybrid Battery Master" was informed his work failed after 200 miles and now the car was under a different owner he decided to tell me to screw off.

    I ended up getting a replacement from 2nd life batteries which was recommended to me off this website.

    Joe was really nice and worked with me on a couple things.

    The guy who replaced this HV battery obviously has been salvaging modules from who knows where.

    He lost a lot of bolts and clips to the trim pieces and these bolt and nuts were not torqued properly. My impact driver literally couldn't get one of the bolts holding the battery in place due to being so tight.

    However at this stage of the replacement I have an issue.

    The batteries sent to me were supposed to be labeled 1-28

    However I have 1-10 and two sets of 11-20

    I also have a total of 30 modules that were sent to me. I'm assuming this is an accident.


    However is this safe to install as is? I thought these cells were supposed to be matched and balanced to each other.

    This is how the modules are currently in. I haven't gone past this stage yet.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    This is extremely common. It is also very common to the same owner. Random guy from Craigslist installs your refurb battery for a few hundred dollars with a 5 year warranty. Wow! What a great deal! It fails a few months later, you call him and generally no answer. If they do answer, well that business is closed. Mikey's Super Awesome Hybrid Battery Repair closed last month. This is now Mikey's Super Excellent Hybrid Battery Repair!

    You bought another cheap used battery. It too will last somewhere between nothing and a few months. A lucky few may get a year without issues. Don't rag on the first guy for using salvaged modules from who knows where. Because that's exactly what you have now again. Just from a second source.

    Labelled batteries 1-28 is not important. It makes it easier to install for some people, but it makes absolutely no difference to the car. The car requires 168 cells that are mostly within eachothers specifications for capacity, internal resistance, etc. The car only monitors every 12 cells to make 14 blocks of 12 cells. So if some cells have lower capacity and some have higher, that's OK as long as per block, it evens out.

    With the original style batteries, you get 6 cells per prismatic. So you have an opportunity to mix-and-match 2 modules into a single block that matches with others. If you have thousands and thousands of modules to choose from, it is possible to pick 14 pairs of modules (28 modules total) that are reasonably close in specification. They will all be used and beat to hell. Low capacity, high internal resistance, and of course very aged. But the car doesn't actually care about that as long as they are equally low capacity, equally high internal resistance, and somewhat equally aged. The only player in this game with that availability of modules, is Dorman. And they have terrible reviews the past couple years because even they can't make a battery last a few years with all their super expensive battery tech and the biggest inventory of modules to cherry pick packs from. If Dorman can't do it, "Joe" can't do it. Plain and simple.

    Just cobble your 28 modules together into a pack and let it run. Hope to get a few months out of it. When it fails in a few months, take it apart and rebalance or swap in another module. Keep doing that every few months until you sell the car or buy a new battery.
     
  3. Banksy

    Banksy Active Member

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    #3 Banksy, Mar 24, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
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  4. Banksy

    Banksy Active Member

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  5. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    You can spend $120,000 on a banana taped to a wall. It's your right to waste money. The fact is Toyota/Panasonic, i.e. PrimeEarth, do not sell new batteries to people except via the dealer. The only source for modules is from old and scrapped vehicles. Most are bought up by large companies like Dorman. The only ones left are the ones you got. They suck.

    What is "refurb completely"? You can't put them in a time machine. The best you can do is balance them and cherry pick ones that are similar.
     
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  6. Banksy

    Banksy Active Member

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    Thanks for the information.

    do not know what to say. This guy was recommended off this website, he seems to do this for a living and was affordable. Guy teaches how to recondition these modules apparently

    I mean I'd seen some companies that make new cells however they are not OEM style are start at like 1600 before shipping and core charge.
     
  7. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    Was there a reason the 'original owner' of the vehicle wouldn't do a warranty claim for the HV battery since it failed in 200 miles?

    So, Alex @ "Hybrid Battery Master" 1-917-397-5474 wasn't able to honor any warranty, limited or otherwise after taking $500.
     
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  8. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    There are some people that do this and are very knowledgeable and have good selections of packs to choose from. Generally they know their local junk yards and when a 2015 comes in on a tow truck, they get the first call. That is a GOOD salvage pack. Those are worth money and you're paying for the expertise and luck and networking of the picker. It is not uncommon for these packs to go for $1500+. They are known good packs. Sometimes even still with the OEM warranty on the modules! (It won't transfer to your car, but it gives a sense of the age/use of them).

    There are lots of good people who do this. To properly balance and charge a pack takes time and hardware investments. I assume your guy does exactly this. But the modules are crap to begin with. Then they become polished crap. You're paying for the polishing. Remember you have to get all the blocks into mostly equivalent numbers. They don't have to be good numbers, just equivalent. By grid charging and discharging and pairing them properly, you can get close. At that exact instant. They will lose this balance by time (driving or not driving) and use (driving and just idling). When your capacity is low to begin with, every small change makes a proportionally larger change to the system than on a healthy pack.

    So what did you pay for? You paid for the labour of a human to babysit your old modules and charge them up, and discharge them. And charge them up, and discharge them. A few times. Plus cataloging them and finding other similar ones in local inventory to mix and match. You did not pay to magically transport the modules back in time.

    Yes a new pack is $1600 with new cells from people like me. More so at the dealer. Not as much as it was before and that's good news for everyone. If you don't want the newer cylindrical style of modules, please go to the dealership and buy a pack for something between $1600 and $3500. The average I am seeing now is about $2250. Fewer are around $1800. And there are a couple unicorns advertising at $1600, but I have yet to have a single customer of mine able to purchase the pack for that price. They are known on here and some people have posted positive stories of obtaining the OEM pack for that price. But you're talking tens of people total.
     
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  9. George W

    George W Active Member

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    That would be the same guy who's been answering you. :)

    His modules are new, 100% compatible, and actually easier to deal with than OEM.. I use his product in my 08 Prius and love it!
     
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  10. Banksy

    Banksy Active Member

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    Well honestly that's exactly what the previous owner was going to do

    Or atleast said that

    Time after Time I contacted him about this and he kept giving me the same response and not actually doing anything.

    After the guy who did this cluster of a job told me to FO I just went on here

    Asked for recommendations for where to buy the cells

    Was referred to 2nd life batteries

    Ordered said batteries and am here now
     
  11. Banksy

    Banksy Active Member

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    Had I known that I'd have probably gone with him

    However I just went with what people recommend off here because I figured they'd know best.

    I don't know man I just wanted to fix my car and I'm not an expert or claim to be one
     
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  12. George W

    George W Active Member

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  13. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    Make sure you that you tighten the bus bar nuts to 48 INCH lbs of force (not a whole lot) using a 1/4 in. drive torque wrench.

    Just button that HV battery back up and take it out for a test drive, as we are here to help you. You can assemble the interior later.
    @PriusCamper has mentioned these folks and the high-end equipment they use before, though no one else that I know of has seen their "gear" or made product claims either way. Since I was curious about this "fancy refurbishment equipment", I did a search for Automotive Research and Design (AR&D) and 澳门新莆京注册网址-娱乐网站免费网址 for giggles and it appears that they have moved on. Even the wayback machine, aka The Internet Archive has no mention of them.

    Pretty sure you will be fine with your purchase, and if there are any warranty issues you will be sorted out correctly. On a personal note, and it may not mean a thing, I've generally had very positive experiences when dealing with pious individuals, sometimes even to the extreme.
    Maybe not available in your area at this price, but was there a reason that you chose not get a 'New' Toyota HV battery pack for $1600(ish)?

    Beyond the 1100 spent, did you have to pay for return shipping to get the $150 core charge refunded?
     
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  14. Banksy

    Banksy Active Member

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    Well it was 1100 all in

    999.99 for the modules (new bolts too) and bus bars.

    110.00 for shipping to me and return shipping

    150.00 for the core charge which he allowed me not to pay on the terms and conditions that I send the old modules back within 30 days.

    I'd considered getting a new one but to be frank after shipping and what have you. I figured it'd be around 1800 bucks and I only paid 1900 for the car. Kind of hard justifying that in my mind.

    However that's just me.
     
    #14 Banksy, Mar 24, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
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  15. ydpplqbd

    ydpplqbd Active Member

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    It seems Alex has a second number: 1-917-397-5475. See: https:// newyork. craigslist. org/que/pts/d/flushing-hybrid-battery-for-toyota/7078851052.html

    Brief excerpt from the above link:

    * Ask me about other models!

    * 04-09 Prius $599

    * 10-15 Prius $1199

    If you have more questions contact me at 9173975475. Alex. Read Less
     
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  16. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Ever since I have been here ( and likely before that ) all the trusted users here have been warning AGAINST companies selling repaired or refurbished packs.
     
  17. Banksy

    Banksy Active Member

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    Will reporting this guy actually do anything?

    DMV or NYPD?
     
  18. ydpplqbd

    ydpplqbd Active Member

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    I have done business with Alex in the past. In order to file a lawsuit (or police report) it would be helpful to have Alex's last name and his physical address. My recollection is that Alex was driving a blue minivan with Florida plates last time that I saw him. Additionally, Alex represented to me that he was originally from Ukraine.

    Actually discussing Alex here is likely to help in resolving these types of issues. As many new Prius owners check in here first. Let us know how you make out.

    PS I would start with complaint to the Better Business Bureau

    PPS I tried to find Alex's address through the reverse directory at spokeo.com but nothing came up.
     
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  19. ydpplqbd

    ydpplqbd Active Member

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    If Alex came to you in PA then any police report would likely be made with local PA or PA state police. Just my two cents ("$0.02").
     
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  20. ydpplqbd

    ydpplqbd Active Member

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    Does anyone have a pic of Alex, his address or the license plate of his vehicle?
     
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