Defender vs energy saver and size

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by gadgets2sell, Mar 23, 2014.

  1. dhanson865

    dhanson865 Expert and Devil's advocate

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    Yeah but they come in a 215/50R17 which is usable for the Prius.
     
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    ^ I'd go for 205/50R17, which is virtually same O.D. as 195/64R17. And likely smoother rolling and better for RR, to boot...: but 215/50R17 would increase O.D. too much for me. And then, with any non-official size, you'd have a fight on your hands, with some by-the-book places, Costco for one. ;(

    At present Michelin Premier A/S is my prime candidate. I even emailed Michelin re future availability of a 215/45R17 Energy Saver A/S; they said it was not going to happen. As I recall they recommended the Premier.
     
    #22 Mendel Leisk, Dec 16, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
  3. dhanson865

    dhanson865 Expert and Devil's advocate

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    205/50/17 doesn't exist in the energy saver A/S nor does 195/65/17 (maybe you meant to say 195/65/15?).

    Anyway the size targets are something like 850 RPM Gen II with OEM vs 835 RPM Gen II corrected, 835 RPM Gen III OEM vs 815 RPM Gen III corrected.

    If you want an accurate speedometer there is nothing wrong with the RPMs / outer diameter of the 215/50R17 (815 RPM and 25.5" diameter). It might be 1% off ideal but it isn't that big of a shift that I'd freak to use it.

    I suppose Costco won't put the 195-65-15 on a Gen II because it isn't OEM size?
     
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    Yeah I'm cognisant energy saver doesn't come in my size, and yes a typo, meant to say 195/65R15.

    I've got no problem with speedo "error". It's legislated thus, I care more about odometer accuracy.

    I'd love to get the energy saver, but Michelin seems bent on limited size, and spotty availability.

    I'm kinda on the outs with Costco's tire department lately: was in there lately, getting xice (for another vehicle): it's directional, and they managed to give me 3 rights and 1 left, lol. They don't even apologize. ;(
     
    #24 Mendel Leisk, Dec 16, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2014
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  5. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Mispost
     
  6. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    That's always been my logic too. Fronts wear out faster (on a Prius), swap rears to front, new on the back, job done. Only have to buy two tires at a time.
     
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  7. TroyF

    TroyF Junior Member

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    I am sorry if my original question was not clear. I want to know if having two Defenders on one axle and two Energy Saver tires on the other axle would cause problems with handling. That is what Sam's Club was suggesting (front or back is a separate question, but I am not conerned about that at the moment).

    I can have the ES tires ordered and it will take five days to get in. The Defenders are in stock. In the mean time, my car vibrates and makes noise due to the broken belt in the one tire.

    Troy
     
  8. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    No, Troy. It won't cause a problem. It's not ideal but you won't have any issues with regular driving.
     
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  9. Janstheman

    Janstheman Junior Member

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    I reference to my previous post, my RainForce tires 195 / 60 R 15 . These tires were good but Michelin does not offer them anymore. In the Defender vs. Energy Saver, if you can afford it go for the Energy Saver. It must be a little softer compound thus the 65k mile warranty. On the other hand the Defender has a longer warranty and has to be a harder compound. If any tire can go 80 k or 90 k warranty, it must be built well or the company would lose money on every tire with that warranty.
    I have had Michelin tires on my cars since the seventies when Volkswagen started selling water cooled cars. They are excellent.
     
  10. TroyF

    TroyF Junior Member

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    What doesn't make sense to me about the "new in rear" logic is when it comes to tire rotation. If you always have to have the newer tires in the rear, then you could never rotate your tires in a "new in back", "old in front" configuration. The front tires would wear even faster than the back, and would always have to be left there (if you observe the safety recommendation of having the best tread in the rear). Unless you rotate tires by swapping the left and right fronts with each other, and then swap the left and right rear tires with each other - you would never be able to rotate tires - which would also go against standard operating procedure for tire manufactures. How do you reconcile the two conflicting thoughts?
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    Yup, I'm with TroyF, the devil is in the details: put the new in rear, they never catch up.
     
  12. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    This is why it is always recommended you buy a set instead of a pair. :)

    If you must buy a pair then I recommend rotating your tires based on season. If you have a definitive rainy season then do your rotation during the dry season and swap back before the wet season. This will help even out wear. Additionally, you shouldn't be running tires that are less than 4/32nds anyway so by using the dry vs. wet season swap you should even things out enough so that you are safe and not stuck in the quandary you mention above. If you live in an area that never has a dry season then and your front tires are worn, you should just bite the bullet and get 4 new tires. I'll look for the test video that illustrates braking distance with various amounts of tread. It's enlightening. :)
     
  13. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    How much tread depth do you need?

     
  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    What's the legal minimum tread depth, 2/32"? One trouble with laws: give some bare minimum requirements, and a lotta folks will adhere to them. Ditto for headlight on requirement: 1/2 hour after dusk?

    Picture driving around with near-bald tread in heavy downpour, 20 minutes after sunset with no lights. You're legal... ;)
     
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  15. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Agreed. That's why I feel it is important to post videos like the one above. It may just save someone's life if they decide to follow the advice instead of just trying to stay legal.

    As a side note, braking distance is not significantly different between the various tread depths when in dry conditions. So for summertime California driving (zero rain) I would put the new tires on the front to try and allow the faster wear to even out the difference between the tires so I could assume a regular rotation pattern. Or, you could allow the fronts to wear down such that you can buy a new pair just before winter. Then all of your tires should be within 2/32nds of each other. BUT you won't get the benefit of the $60-$80 rebate tire manufacturers offer when you purchase 4 tires.
     
  16. TroyF

    TroyF Junior Member

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    I did end up with four new Energy Saver tires, as follows: I had a certificate (hazard warranty) through Discount Tire Direct (DTD), so I got one tire free to replace the tire with the bad belt. DTD prorated my second tire on the same axle by matching what Sam's had offered based on 5/32 tread, which resulted in $56 cost to me for the second tire. I got the other two tires for $20 off each, resulting in $96 each. Free shipping. By buying four tires I got the Michelin's $70 rebate. Pre-rebate cost for four tires is $248. After rebate, $178. I will have to pay Monroe to install and balance the tires. I opted to not to get the $15 per tire hazard warranty this time (I can get it in 30 days if desired).
     
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  17. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

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    Not where lights-on is legally required in rain.
     
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  18. Scallywag

    Scallywag Member

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    Interesting. My road hazard warranty from NTB was cheaper per-tire, though I've already used it once. The "value" about equalled what I paid for all four tires. I had a hole patched - not a simple gas-station plug job, either; it included taking the tire off the rim and everything. I paid $10/tire and NTB does that service for $40 usually at my local store. It might be worth it, depending on your roads.
     
  19. TroyF

    TroyF Junior Member

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    What is NTB?
     
  20. dhanson865

    dhanson865 Expert and Devil's advocate

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    http://www.ntb.com/
     
    #40 dhanson865, Dec 31, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2014
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