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Definitely, not a performance car

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by jamarimutt, May 24, 2004.

  1. fred

    fred New Member

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    ill tell you what the prius acceleration reminds me of. i had an 02 4 cylinder 5speed ranger. the acceleration just could not be hurried up but once it was rolling it was ok. the prius gets off the line like that but i think it has like a midband of acceleration when everything is on like electric and gas that is as ive said before is very surprising for the traditional vehicles around it.
     
  2. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    Off the line startup is pretty impressive (0-25) thanks to gobs standing start electric torque. Granted, it's turning a drivetrain that's "stuck in top gear", but it does a pretty good job at that :)
     
  3. jamarimutt

    jamarimutt New Member

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    Seems like a total waste of money to me, but everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion.
     
  4. amped

    amped Senior Member

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    Well this turned into an interesting experiment. Like you said, the ICE remained idling in "B", although more roughly than it's normal idle. Then I did a torque stand (brake on, gradual throttle application) until ICE revs began increasing after about half-throttle. More throttle gave more revs until about three-quarters throttle when it hit stall speed of an estimated-by-ear of ~2K rpm. Full throttle produced no more revs but the engine sound changed to slightly more throaty. Brake release produced more spirited acceleration than I've ever felt before, even producing a little frisky Prius tire scratch. I was so impressed that I repeated the drill at least a half-dozen times with the same result.

    I also tried repeated torque stand cycles over a period of about two minutes but not releasing the brake. It wound up the drivetrain and suspension the same way each time. There might be a time limit to doing this, but I didn't reach it and cycled around a dozen times over the two minutes.

    Then I tried the same thing in "D". It worked! Maybe on my other attempts I didn't use enough throttle, or the CVT has a "learning" ECU that changed something. Probably cockpit trouble, though. It takes at least half-throttle to start the ICE, more throttle produced the same result as above. Launch was as exciting as it gets in a Prius, anyway.

    I wouldn't make a habit of the technique because who knows what damage the extra heat is doing, if any, but it never threw a CEL. The power distribution screen showed all ICE output going to the drive wheels at half-throttle. Around three-quarters throttle it showed that plus output to battery. I think I'll skip measuring fuel economy on this tank, although strangely my average increased a tenth on the trip. Maybe because it's approaching 80°F today.

    Anyway, great fun if you need a sudden burst of acceleration off the line. Next, I'll put a stopwatch on it to measure the difference between normal and torque stand launch. Seat-of-pants impressions are substantially better 60' and improving from there because the ICE spools up so quickly compared to normal launch.
     
  5. fred

    fred New Member

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    lol! very funny did the torque snap the steering wheel to the right or left?
    wondering if drag slicks may be available for prius(slender variety) :)
     
  6. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    I think the upper limit to how long you could do that would be the inverter/MG1/MG2 coolant temp, and the overall battery state of charge (if not floored, the extra power may be directed to the battery).

    I know "stall speed" is an old term. However, rather than a stall speed, you're hitting, or coming close to, the maximum RPM for MG1 (10,000 RPM). The ECU won't allow the engine to rev any higher. ~2000 RPM is about right - use Wayne's Palm THS simulator to find out the real max though at 0 mph if you're interested.
     
  7. amped

    amped Senior Member

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    No torque steer reaction at all on dry pavement. That could change on a low grip surface until TRAC cuts in.

    Oh, I tried the torque stand technique in "R", too. Nothing happened at all. I thought it might be useful for getting a backward run out of, say, deep snow like where I got stuck last Winter. No go, it only works in "D".
     
  8. fred

    fred New Member

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    i have to hand it to you , you sure believe in the scientific method of experimntation! :wink:
     
  9. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    That's pretty much why I don't do it. Too much and there will be wheel spin, which TRAC will immediately kill. Did TRAC kick in on your launches?

    Doing in R would be counter-intuitive. The ICE spins forward, while the wheels are trying to spin backward. The idea is to build forward torque. If you'll recall, Prius doesn't have a reverse gear, but rather spins the drive motor (MG2) backward in reverse, so spinning the ICE forward actually cancels some of the reverse torque MG2 is creating.

    Also, in a "torque brake" situation, the ICE would immediately have to slow down once moving in reverse to keep MG1 from overreving as MG2 started rotating backward. So it would make sense why the Toyota engineers don't allow it via programming.

    Looking at the nomiographs, this all makes sense. :)

    -Rick
     
  10. fred

    fred New Member

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    arghhhhhhhh!!!! hep me! hep me! :p
     
  11. amped

    amped Senior Member

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    TRAC didn't kick in on any launch. I don't think the slight wheelspin on dry asphalt lasted long enough for it to react.

    As for the rest, whew, I'm behind the curve on HSD theory and application. It's starting to bug me, too. I like understanding widgets. Time to hit the books, er, CD's, DVD's and Google. :wink:
     
  12. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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