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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ecojosh @ Aug 20 2006, 12:25 PM) [snapback]306319[/snapback]</div>

Let's see: 16 quarters = $4.

I couldn't find that many around. (My wife steals them for parking meters!) So I used dimes and nickles to attain the proper value.

When I sat down in my modified car, the seat fell over backwards and I cracked my head. Where did I go wrong? :huh:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ecojosh @ Aug 20 2006, 12:25 PM) [snapback]306319[/snapback]</div>

Bad idea. You're creating a wedge shaped failure plane for the bolts. You don't want your seat to come loose from the floor in an accident.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Aug 20 2006, 03:42 PM) [snapback]306345[/snapback]</div>

amen! pete

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ecojosh @ Aug 20 2006, 01:34 PM) [snapback]306341[/snapback]</div>

Dude, I read your post. Did you sleep through physics class? Putting washers around the bolts is no different.

If you want to make the seat angle more comfortable, remove the seat from the car, remove the upholstery, cut the base, weld it back at a different angle, re-install, done.

edit: if you don't want to make it that drastic, just remove the bottom upholstery from the frame, insert a foam wedge underneath, and re-install.

 

make sure you get the right torque for the seat bolts, that's critical and is mandated by federal satefy standards down here in the states.

this will very likely warp the seat track, because the bolts go in at an angle and the straight downward pressure of someone sitting on the seat will warp the angle. seat tracks cost around $1500, but more importantly this places you in peril because the seat could easily be ripped from the seat track during an accident.

that said, now you know what you're getting into.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Aug 20 2006, 02:03 PM) [snapback]306354[/snapback]</div>

Yep, that too.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ecojosh @ Aug 20 2006, 04:21 PM) [snapback]306391[/snapback]</div>

OK, be that way

I know it seems silly, but it is your safety we're talking about here. Plus I did give you two good ideas above (and I agree, you should've had the foam re-done when you had the leather installed). Plus what you're describing is totally mickey-mouse. It's also illegal, for what that's worth.

I assume you're putting the washers under the front feet of the seat, correct? How many washers, i.e. how much height have you added? If it's one washer, you're right, it's probably safe, but each washer you add makes it less so.

If it were me, I'd weld a plate equal to the height of the washers to the bottom of the feet (and while I was at it, I'd gusset the inside angle of the foot - an inherently weak point). If that changed the bolt angle, I'd grind the bottom of the plate to acheive the original bolt angle.

There you have it - an easy, cheap, and safe way to do what you want. (but still illegal B) )

 

I made a light-hearted comment above. Here's a serious one to complete the set.

About 30 years ago they built a hotel in Kansas City that was a vertical cylinder. The floors inside were circular around the central opening that went all the way down. The original plan was for a number of very long threaded steel rods to go from the roof, through each individual walkway, down to the lobby. Under each walkway they were going to put a supporting bracket threaded onto each rod. This resulted in each bracket supporting its own walkway only. The rods, of course, had to support them all and they were strong enough to do so.

Well, the long rods couldn't be delivered in a timely fashion so the engineers went to plan B. They used short rods that just connected the 10th floor, for example, to the 9th floor above. And so on from top to bottom. Now, if you think about it, each bracket is now not just supporting its own walkway, but all the ones below it also.

One evening, during moderate traffic, the whole thing collapsed because the brackets weren't strong enough to support this additional weight and never were intended to be. I forget how many were killed but it was a fair number.

That's a long story that indicates why this is a silly idea and I treated it as such. I've carried this philosophy, with varying success, to other mods proposed herein. The building failed despite the concerted group-think of graduate engineers and architects. They were wrong.

A car is not a toy. The Prius was designed with safety in mind and as we go about trying to change every damned thing Toyota put into it we must consider the risk we pose to ourselves, our families and others because we think we know it all. I never did.

In my airplane, when somebody told me an action might result in newspaper headlines the next day I listened. Pilots are a pretty disciplined lot in general. Those who introduce independent, unsupported, creative thinking into the plan quite often don't make it to retirement. The laws of physics and diligent check pilots assured this, one way or another.

More people die in car accidents than airplane mishaps. I'm trying to tell you why.

 

I just think "shimming" the seats in any way would be very very dangerous. something I just don't think i'd ever do, but its you car............

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alnilam @ Aug 20 2006, 08:43 PM) [snapback]306430[/snapback]</div>

It wasn't the engineers. The engineering was fine, it was the builders that made an on-site decision to substitute shorter rods.

Tom

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ecojosh @ Aug 21 2006, 09:29 AM) [snapback]306647[/snapback]</div>

Longer bolts will probably be difficult to find. I took my driver's seat out to install an inflatable lumbar support. The bolts are really odd. The end of the bolt is a smaller diameter than the part further back. Both diameters are threaded. There also seems to be a lock-tite material on the threads. The torque setting is 27 ft-lbs according to the shop manual (and my perhaps faulty memory). Having longer replacements made in a machine shop might be a possibility, but you would then run into material and hardness questions in trying to duplicate the OEM part's characteristics for safety. (Then you'd have to do a crash test just to be sure ;-)).

- Tom

 

Yes, but the engineers were responsible for ensuring that the structure was built as per designs and to verify that any required modifications would still meet requirements.. They obviously didn't and are considered partially responsible for the consequences..

This requirement (under the law) for responsibilty for all work done/supervised by engineers/architects is not well known by the general public but is why we engineers get so up in arms when a garbageman decides to call himself a "sanitation engineer" and why Microsoft can continue using the acronym "MCSE", but cannot use the term "engineer"- there are laws in most jurisdictions that restrict the corporate use of the term "engineer" or "engineering" strictly to those firms registered and licensed under the act; likewise, individuals using the title must be engaged in the practice of engineering and possess requisite training (ie, an engineering degree) and in some places a valid registration as well. This restriction of the use of the term is enshrined under the law and it's primarily to reinforce this duty of responsibility for public safety and ethical conduct- if you call yourself an engineer, this duty is implicit, it is *not* just a fancy title that you can place on a business card..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Aug 21 2006, 05:40 AM) [snapback]306630[/snapback]</div>

I apologize for my loose usage of the words "engineers" and "architects." My point was that the overall construction of this imperfect building was performed by people who had some legal qualifications for making their decisions and, even so, came up disastrously wrong.

How much less qualified is the average Prius modifier in his work? Aiding and abetting others to do things to their cars just because it's possible or fun should have consequences when it all goes wrong. (I, of course, am not talking about cosmetic changes, but structural and design modifications that are made haphazardly with little or no knowledge of why Toyota, a rather well-engineered company, included them with the car to begin with.) When the modified seat bolts snap under moderate stress and you suddenly find yourself trying to complete your car-passing attempt from the horizontal position, your seat-tilt-comfort priority might seem a little shallow.

As an example, I have a tow hitch on my Prius to hold my bike rack. Nothing in my owner's manual prohibits this. It says "No towing allowed," not "No hitches allowed." Towing has been deemed a dangerous maneuver by Toyota, who ought to know. Yet on a parallel PriusChat subject I see pictures of our car towing objects much larger than a breadbox. The owners go on at great length about the safety of their actions based on personal belief and lack of accidents, at least up until the time the pictures were taken. How stupidly liable is that? A first year law student is going to get your house, fortune and dog if you so much as scratch another vehicle.

The BT brace I installed has got me thinking I am in a gray area. Sure, I've replaced an item with a much more solid device and it seems logical I have done no wrong. But suppose I swerve to miss running over a gerbil and do great damage to a parked Hummer as I lose control. I think I might feel awfully inadequate defending this modification against a theoretically hostile prosecutor who could get the Toyota engineer who designed the original to explain how it was a perfect concept and I had screwed it up, causing the accident. This is the world we live in.

Airplanes that are modified beyond a certain point are termed "experimental" and are subject to limitations on their use. Perhaps cars should have a similar category and marked with a big "X" so we can get out of their way when we see them coming. Just a thought......

 

I'm thinking about jacking up the rear of my Prius to make it look more, um, sinister and manly for those times when a Hummer is intimidatingly close. I was thinking two stacks of fifty cent pieces. I'm figuring about $25 worth should do it. What do the engineers here on PriusChat think? Should I pay an extra $25 and upgrade to the dollar coins? NO, I know better than to use Susan B. Anthonys . . . give me credit for knowing better! :mellow:


[The OP deleted his posts . . . I hope he learned something and didn't just take his marbles and go play in the middle of some other street. :blink: ]

 

looks like he got the idea, i guess safety is more important than comfort. Though, like in technology, there are always other things that can be done to get the same result, i guess you should of asked that, dont assume there is only one way to get to your desination.