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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Aug 21 2006, 01:15 PM) [snapback]306820[/snapback]</div>

It didn't do any good since the quotes in other posts are still there.

I remember that building.

My favorite story is one my Dad (an electrical engineer) told me about the importance of decimal points. Short version: They were building an overpass here and when they removed the wooden supports it fell down. Seems someone put a decimal point in the wrong place.

And I agree with everyone. You want a wedgie? Take the upholstery off the bottom and modify the foam in the seat.

 

While I do agree in general principle, stifling all creative thought, even by obviously unqualified individuals, is in the long run counterproductive; as long as the person doesn't go out and say "hey everyone, go do this..", it doesn't hurt to talk about the idea and point out the problems and dangers. At the end of the day, every individual has his/her own judgement and free will and in the true spirit of Darwin, I say let evolution take its course...

In this case, Wilco is absolutely right, while my specialty is not mechanical engineering, I still remember enough of my undergrad engineering to recognize that by placing a significant angle beneath the bolt, you're creating a dangerous situation.. A bolt is designed with a certain axial strength, and by changing the contact angle (ie, the bolt head no longer makes contact with the seat rail at a perpendicular but on a point contact at some angle), you're also changing the failure mode of the bolt entirely- the original failure mode would likely be a simple shear failure, but by raising the rail, you've now got bending moment and point contact and who knows what else.. Even if you were to wedge the washer and put a reverse-wedge washer on the other side to keep the bolt contact perpendicular, and also put a wedge shaped support under the centre of the rail to support, this does not eliminate the danger- the shear plane is changed and due to the new vectors (actually, I think you actually introduce multiple shear planes), you've also got additional axial forces on the bolt to deal with; at the very least, the torque spec would have to change (increased), but then you also have to worry about whether the nut in the floor is rated for an increased torque spec or will you simply strip out the threads.. Ie, the math behind a simple-sounding modification is actually quite complex- especially where failure tolerance for safety applications is required..

To give you an idea of the forces that a car seat experiences- I was rear-ended by someone a while back; it wasn't that bad an impact and the only visible damage from the outside was a small crack in the corner of the bumper and some paint scratches, but when they opened things up, in addition to a new rear bumper, support and absorber pad and some panel and frame repairs, they also had to repair the driver's seat as the rails bent slightly from my body getting pushed back into the seat and the seat would no longer adjust smoothly- so I'm not sure I would do anything to the seat mounts and rails that might compromise their integrity in a crash..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ecojosh @ Aug 21 2006, 01:28 PM) [snapback]306832[/snapback]</div>

Actually, if you look at most posts concerning PHEV's, people on the boards generally aren't against them... in fact, we seem to crave them (i can't wait till i can only use gas on long road trips...). Instead, we simply point out that it voids the warrenty, and is rather expensive, which is why most of us don't do it. However, when Toyota comes out with the next gen Prius, which will hopefully be PHEV, we'll probably be the first people in line. When it comes to changing/replacing the seats, i believe most of the posts here that have been accepted have been done by professional companies who take these kinds of problems into consideration... not to say that it's as safe as the original or not, but it has to be better than a homemade modification like this...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(c4 @ Aug 21 2006, 11:47 AM) [snapback]306846[/snapback]</div>

This is a good concept generally. But:

Free will + own judgement - responsibility = anarchy

I am not in the least trying to stifle creativity. Darwinism is a concept I cherish. I prefer not to be included in somebody else's failed chain however. Let them evolve in their own time and place. I'm happy as I am, thank you.

Ride your motorcycle without a helmet but don't expect society to pay the bills for a lifetime of vegetation after the crash. Learn to fly by flapping your arms real fast off a tall building, but don't land on my head.

All advancement involves risk. I just don't want to be included in the experiments unless asked.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ecojosh @ Aug 21 2006, 02:26 PM) [snapback]306876[/snapback]</div>

Thats going to complete extremes, which no one here is saying. We simply pointed out that what you were suggesting has a potentially huge inpact in safety. While you could claim the same for tires, those are *designed* to be replaced after a certain amount of wear, and in fact companies generally don't tell you specifically which tires to replace them with. If someone asks about changing the cabin air filter, odds are someone will reply with its location, along with the page number in the manual where the information can be found... besides, it's NOT a safety issue. for the Nav system, and buttons i tell anyone to push won't cause ANY permanent changes, nor will it effect the SAFETY of the system.

You're comparing apples to oranges here buddy, and coming up with a basket full of grapes. So go make your whine someplace else.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Aug 21 2006, 02:43 PM) [snapback]306895[/snapback]</div>

I remember when i was under there working on my sub and again my seat covers that you can definately tell where the fabric ends... i would guess that there's someplace where it's cliped into place, or something similar... it should only take a few minutes to find it, then you should be able to just pull it off (after all, it had to go on there simply, right?). the only problem i forsee is getting it back on... with additional padding, i would imagine you'd have to stretch the fabric tighter, which might cause a seam to rip or something... not something to be done without thinking through the consequences.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ecojosh @ Aug 21 2006, 11:28 AM) [snapback]306832[/snapback]</div>

Well, actually it would be much safer. The fact that you don't know that makes you unqualified to make mods to the safety equipment in your car.

I've actually tried to be helpful to you, and contrary to your assertion, you did not receive my advice well. If I came off the wrong way I'm sorry, but it's your defensiveness that's propelled this thread. We are just trying to warn you not to do something stupid. I'm all for letting people 'touch the stove', but you don't seem to have the first clue as to how dangerous what you want to do might be. Your original idea was a bad one, yet you blame everyone else for not agreeing with you. Doesn't that kinda make you the one who is stifling open discussion?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ecojosh @ Aug 21 2006, 11:28 AM) [snapback]306832[/snapback]</div>

I'm not hiding behind a keyboard, I'd say all this to your face if you were standing in front of me right now. I'd also try to help you come up with a safe solution to your problem. You need to chill here.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ecojosh @ Aug 21 2006, 12:26 PM) [snapback]306876[/snapback]</div>

That's a straw man.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Aug 21 2006, 02:53 PM) [snapback]306907[/snapback]</div>

I'm usually pretty good figuring this sort of thing out (i still hear stories about how i took apart the toaster when i was 5...) and i'll take a look at it tonight, might be able to offer a few suggestions... along with a big "Don't Sue Me" disclaimer, of course :-p

 

People here are just looking out for you. No one wants you to win a Darwin Award.

Darwin Awards

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ecojosh @ Aug 21 2006, 02:28 PM) [snapback]306832[/snapback]</div>

my post was simply to ensure that you knew what you were getting into. you got all defensive because noone jumped up and said "hey what a great idea!"

it seems that your problem is that your ego wasn't boosted by the replies here, which is reflected in the deletion of all your early posts in this thread. if we're not going to agree with you, you're not even going to acknowledge that you presented an idea that was not agreed with by others. that's real mature.

as one of the few who in most cases can provide answers that others can't... simply because of what one of us happens to do for a living... i can't say it makes us think we're any better or more valuable as human beings than anyone else on this board. neither of us needs an ego trip from the internet. i'm sure most others here don't either.

look. this is a public forum. when you're putting something in a post you're putting it out there for lots of other people to see, for lots of other people to judge. and people are going to chime in if they think you're about to put yourself in a dangerous situation. i think that's a good thing, personally...

while it seems noone's going to talk you out of it, at least you should by now have some bearing on what you're doing and you're not going about it uninformed of the consequences. that was my entire goal and probably that of some of the other posters in this thread.

 

One should never ask a question unless they are prepared to accept all possible answers, not just the one they want.

Posting something like this on a public forum will generate many responses, and not all of them may be to your liking. There was some sarcasm here and there, which might have been good-natured, or not, but from my reading of the posts, much of the responses were of the good intention of not having you defeat or compromise safety; in other words, for your own good whether you choose to accept that or not.

Think of this: you make your mod anyway. You're driving around (comfortably now) with someone in the passenger seat. You are rear-ended, and because you've compromised the system that keeps your seat attached, it breaks free and you are no longer in any position to control the car, and it travels into oncoming traffic. Do you really want the responsibility of whatever happens to that passenger, and the people in the oncoming lanes? Believe me, if that's me and my family, I am NOT going to happy hearing that my involvement in the accident can be directly tied to your illegal modification... just something to think about. You may be affecting more than you think.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alnilam @ Aug 20 2006, 07:43 PM) [snapback]306430[/snapback]</div>

That would be the Hyatt Regency, I remember discussion at the U during a "manufacturing/engineering ethics" course

http://www.mech.utah.edu/ergo/educate/safety_modules/KC/

It's very easy to assume, and very difficult after the fact to forgive

Much like that Aeroflot Airbus that crashed in Siberia in 1994. What really caused the crash? The pilot letting his son "fly" the airliner, or the autoflight system that could partially disconnect with no Master Caution or Master Warning?

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record...40323-0&lang=en

Fiddling with a systems design may have no consequences if it's minor or not essential to Life Safety. It that system IS important to Life Safety, you're a human crash test dummy way off the envelope

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Aug 21 2006, 06:15 PM) [snapback]307188[/snapback]</div>

I thought it was the Hyatt but didn't want to say unless I were sure. I see from your URL that my details are a bit off but the main theme of the post is correct. 114 dead!

I just today finished reading "Airframe" by Michael Crichton, loosly based on that Siberian crash. (I think....)

Thanks for the memory injection! I keep forgetting that you can find nearly everything on the Internet.