Democracy worked!

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by daniel, Nov 4, 2004.

  1. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    America is an ignorant, xenophobic, belligerent, fearful, hateful, and racist country, and we elected the man who spoke to those emotions.

    In my state, a constitutional amendment initiated by fundamentalist Christian homophobes, to deny marriage to same-sex couples, passed by a landslide. This, too, preserves the American tradition of narrowminded religious bigotry and the imposition of majority religious dogma on the minority.

    Personally, I wish that democracy had not worked quite so well.
     
  2. VARedDevil

    VARedDevil New Member

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    The people, based on their personal beliefs, and you can slander that anyway you want and it still won't change the outcome. And unless you denounce your citizenship and become a citizen of another country, you fall in that group of America that you so slander...
     
  3. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    And in every other state where it was on the ballot, except where it was just a wide margin:
     
  4. KMO

    KMO Member

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    Well said, daniel. The rest of the world is now a little taken aback, in that the citizens appear to have just confirmed all our relflex anti-American prejudices. :|
     
  5. VARedDevil

    VARedDevil New Member

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    And you speak for the world? It's amazing how your opinion is that of the whole world...maybe you are taken aback, but I would venture to guess that there are many in this world that have more important things to think about in their own lives and countries than to be taken aback that some states voted on not allowing same-sex marriages.
     
  6. rflagg

    rflagg Member

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    Actually VA, I believe KMO was referencing Bush's election, not same sex marriages, but I'm just guessing, I can't speak for KMO.

    But, these states that voted to ban gay marriage already had the legal definition of marriage as between a man and a woman - so really passing this is just a waste of taxpayer money with time, effort, and all that.

    Plus, this only makes the ACLU, HRC, and many other organizations all the more likely to fight these laws to overturn them. It won't take anymore work for an amendment to be overturned than it would to have an amendment added allowing gay marriage, but these amendments certainly give the gay population reason to fight the states now.

    -m.
     
  7. VARedDevil

    VARedDevil New Member

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    Well, that could be true, be even then, I seriously doubt he has been made the spokesperson for the world. And again, there are millions of people out there in the world that have more important things on their plates then to worry about who got elected in the U.S.
     
  8. starla30

    starla30 New Member

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    Are you trying to claim that most of the world does not have a problem with the re-election of Bush? Because KMO is certainly not mistaken in "speaking for the world" about how concerned they are by the direction the US is headed. We are the most powerful country in the world. When we have elections the rest of the world pays attention. I just wish we had a better outcome than this. Our country just voted to continue treating the world like crap.
     
  9. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    I have two views about the banning of same-sex-marraige.

    One is that in providing a strict definition of acceptance, we are limiting the group of people who can participate in something. Notice that I didn't mention "marriage" or "same-sex". In my humble opinion, it's a slippery slope; once we start applying rules and exclusions to one item, it's not far-fetched to believe that it will happen to something else. I wish I could remember more of it, but I read once what someone wrote about the growth of Nazi Germany: "they came and took the Blacks and no one stopped them; then they can and took the Jews and no one stopped them; and when they came for you there was no one left to stop them. My point is not to compare this country with Nazi Germany. Rather to illustrate how easy it is to let things happen when they don't relate to you and how quickly you find that eventually those things will relate to you.

    My second problem with banning same-sex marriage is that the only arguments I have heard are based in moral and biblical rhetoric. I wanted to hear someone say that allowing same-sex marraige would bankrupt all health-care providers around the world because Domestic Partners (DPs) would be eligible on their partner's plan rather than paying for their own. I was waiting for someone to indicate that same-sex marriage would cause the San Andreas fault to open up and shove California out to sea. I was wiating on baited breath to find out that same-sex marriage would cause all those people who have been living in secrecy of their lifestyles, in fear of reprisal, and in denial of their very essense to come forward and be proud of who they are as people.


    But apperantly, I am supposed to love my neighbor unless he is gay. I am supposed to love the sinner and hate the homosexual. We are supposed to let God judge the righteous from the damned but we should get in a few punches while we can.
     
  10. VARedDevil

    VARedDevil New Member

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    No, I'm not saying that at all...I don't doubt that there are people who are concerned who we elect as president. I'm saying he doesn't speak for the world. Those are his opinions and his alone. Everyone has their own opinion. (i.e., Chirac voice his and it wasn't at all like KMO's, Prime Minister Blair voiced his opinion, and it wasn't at all like KMO's.) All I'm saying is that that was KMO's and KMO's only opinion. He is not qualified to speak for the world. No one is...
     
  11. VARedDevil

    VARedDevil New Member

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    It is totally a moral and faith based position...there is nothing scientific about it. I believe it was called "core values".
     
  12. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    Hmmm, if the upper portion of it were a little more inland, it could be the Bush-Kerry fault line :) Of course the Kerry section would have to push out 200 miles from the Bush part or the U.S. would claim it as an island within its territorial limits. ;-)
     
  13. markhaney2004

    markhaney2004 New Member

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    I think we should split the nation. We could create "America" and "America 2". We could let all the religious fanatics live in America and the well-educated liberals can live in "America 2". We could keep the blue states and they could keep the red states.

    Think about it. America would be at war for oil - but not America 2 - we'd all have hybrids and since we have all the educated Americans, we'd have hydrogren fuel cells and other alternative energy sources quicker, cause no one in the red states would be inventing them. Our economy and worldwide respect would skyrocket. What a great future it could be....

    Anyone with me?
     
  14. VARedDevil

    VARedDevil New Member

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    There you go, divide American's even further...that's what we all need. Pretty uneducated statement on your part. And look at the voting by county, you'll find that there aren't any "blue" states. There are "blue" islands in otherwise "red" states, correlating to heavily populated metro areas. California is probably the closest you'll get to a completely "blue" state.
     
  15. jkash

    jkash Member

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  16. Sun__Tzu

    Sun__Tzu New Member

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    I wonder if anyone knows why the religious right condemns lesbianism. If I'm not mistaken, the passage in the Bible talks about "man laying with man." So if the Bible is the literal word of God, wouldn't it also say something about women laying with women? Maybe this chapter is free to interpretation?
     
  17. betshsu

    betshsu Member

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    And where would that put us, since Austin is a very tiny blue island in the middle of a big red state (and in fact, surrounded by red states)?

    This is very true. There are many blue islands in the middle of red states. California isn't even close to all blue. The coast is very blue, but not inland. I think states in the NE are closer to being all blue (probably helped by their smaller size). Like MA, ME, and VT.
     
  18. wb9tyj

    wb9tyj 2017 Prius Prime Advanced

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    In reference to KMO remarks...World opinion can be what it wants to be...the same attitude was prevailent pre WW1 and WW2...and when Europe and its socialist/communist agenda is at stake...no wonder it whines when America stands on its own...Karl Marx and his thought process was to ultimately infiltrate the European Continent and decieve, and of course when socialist/communists/fascist have their agenda of one world govt,and America wont go for it, they whine about it...Hopefully the UK doesnt fall for it ,either...
     
  19. markhaney2004

    markhaney2004 New Member

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    betshsu,

    You got it. We would have to leave Austin. I consider it a small price to pay. Hell, outside of Austin I can't stand the state in which I preside.... I'm already planning on leaving Texas within 2 years for Europe (plans in process from before the election)....

    Anyway, my remarks were made out of humor, but currently, I think I'd prefer to live in America 2 rather than our current nation :)

    Sorry to get everyone down, I just can't accept this monster that was just elected any longer.
     
  20. Stan Wilson

    Stan Wilson New Member

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    Boy, I sure wish everyone was as intelligent as Daniel and did as he desired. Us poor old dumb folk out here in America just can't help being stupid.

    There is nothing more intolerant than a liberal ignored or defeated.
     
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