Did I screw up horribly? - installed my own 240v outlet

Discussion in 'Prime Plug-in Charging' started by Refurbmike, Apr 2, 2021.

  1. Refurbmike

    Refurbmike New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2021
    9
    1
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    So I had a misunderstanding of how the Prime charges, specifically w/ 240v. I thought I could just install a 240v outlet with a regular receptacle and it would work. Is there anyway to salvage this outlet and still use it for the 240v charging?

    o.jpg
     
  2. Colorado_Hiker

    Colorado_Hiker Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2018
    13
    15
    0
    Location:
    Denver, Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    So the questions are: What size wire are you using from the breaker box to the outlet? What size circuit breaker are you using? Is this is truly a dedicated 240v/ (30-40amp) circuit, then you can simply change the outlet. BUT!!!--- if this is not the case you need to rethink/redo. There are very specific SAFTEY reasons why the outlet shape/size is different between a 120volt and 240volt circuit. The way you have it now, someone could ignore your "240volt" marking and plug a regular device into the outlet. NOT a good idea! If you're not familiar with different breaker sizes, wire sizes, amps, volts, and line voltage drops, FIRST: Turn off the power to this outlet and do NOT use it! SECOND: Hire a certified electrician to install a new 240volt circuit and outlet, that is properly sized to the amperage you need.
     
  3. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    9,459
    11,547
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    YIKES!!!! Now I see why local governments require permits and inspections. If you really have 240V going to that outlet, you need to replace it with a 240V outlet before something gets destroyed or someone gets hurt or killed. That is a humongous code violation and really dangerous.

    I'll reluctantly give this advice:
    To use just two hots and a ground, install a NEMA 10-30R. Make sure the wires feeding it are at least #12 so they can handle as much current as the receptacle (30A). A 15A 2-pole breaker is sufficient for the car's charger, but you can go as high as a 30A breaker since it has a 30A outlet and wiring. Then you can make an adapter to connect the NEMA 5-15P on your EVSE cable to is. Then, keep the adapter connected to the cable so that it can't get left in the outlet.

    The better advice, more strongly urged is:
    Hire an electrician. Something tells me you don't know enough to make this a safe installation. There are lots of little details and can cause a fire or hurt someone if you do them wrong.
     
  4. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2018
    1,444
    1,144
    0
    Location:
    Taylors, SC
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    Connecting the second phase to the "neutral" terminal of the 15 amp 120 VAC receptacle will make the metal "frame" of the duplex receptacle and everything connected to it, including a metal box live. Touch the metal and having your feet grounded will likely kill you.
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    91,734
    41,370
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    two things:

    1) you need to install a proper 240v receptacle to code. including the correct wire size and circuit breaker.
    2) you need to convert the prime evse to 240v, cost is around twenty dollars. see the appropriate thread here.
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  6. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    7,917
    6,330
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2020 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    I am not an electrician nor do I claim to be very knowledgeable about electric work around the house. But even with my very little knowledge, I can see 240v feeding to the 120v outlet is a very dangerous potentially life-threatening, and most likely fire hazard code violation. Yeah, if I was you, I would shut off the breaker feeding that outlet immediately... and consult a certified electrician to get a proper installation of a 240v outlet.
     
    #6 Salamander_King, Apr 2, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
    Steph1972 and jerrymildred like this.
  7. Refurbmike

    Refurbmike New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2021
    9
    1
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    I see there's a bunch of 240v outlets; which one do I pick? I read elsewhere to use the "dryer" outlet?
     
  8. Refurbmike

    Refurbmike New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2021
    9
    1
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    Question: I'm looking at Rob43's adapter - how is mine any different? I merely skipped the cable and did it directly at the outlet, no?
     
  9. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    9,459
    11,547
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    Merely???? That's the whole point. Without the adapter, you have made a death trap.
    Do you see what's in bold there?

    Rob's adapter plugs into a 240V outlet. It's meant to be left attached to the EVSE cable, not the outlet so no one can accidentally plug in a 120V device. You have no adapter. Anybody can plug any old 120v tool or appliance into that outlet you have installed and blow it up or kill themself with the 120V that's likely to be present on any metal surface the item has. If you install a NEMA 10-30R they can only plug in stuff made to run on 240 volts -- or your adapter which should be connected to the charging cable.

    If you didn't already know this stuff you're going to hurt someone and you really need to get someone in there who knows what they are doing. I'm not just guessing. I'm an electronics engineer and industrial electrician. I cannot warn you strongly enough of the danger your outlet poses. I don't think I've ever been more scared of something someone did with electricity. And that's saying a lot.
     
  10. Refurbmike

    Refurbmike New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2021
    9
    1
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    Well, I'm sure there are people who have detached their cable from the adapter and throw it in the trunk for portable use. With that in mind, is it really that different - other than somebody COULD plug something into it? Can't somebody plug something into Rob's adapter, assuming the car's cable wasn't plugged in?
     
  11. road2cycle

    road2cycle Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2021
    65
    54
    0
    Location:
    Sonoma County, CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XLE
    Beyond getting that outlet configured correctly, perhaps another question you should ask yourself is if you really need to charge the Prime at 240V. It takes roughly 5.5 hours at 12A @120V. If you use the lower current (8A @ 120V) it takes around 8 hours to charge a “fully” depleted battery. I’ve been happily charging in 8A mode for the past two months. Initially I had been thinking of installing a 240V outlet, but I’ve found it wouldn’t do me any good. The Prime charges while I sleep. Perhaps your situation is different than mine.

    If you have a full EV vehicle I could understand the need for a 240V charging outlet.
     
  12. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    397
    209
    0
    Location:
    Near Silicon Valley
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    The rationalization used by people who wire an outlet this way usually goes like this:

    It's fundamentally the same as making an adapter cord.
    It's clearly labeled as 240 VAT and Car charged so no one will misuse it.
    I'll make sure everyone understands.
    I'll undo it before I sell the house.
    Code is just for professionals.

    But what do you do when you electrocute yourself and someone comes along to unplug it? What happens when someone replaces that trim plate, removing your warning? What happens when your 10 year old plugs in a vacuum cleaner? What happens when the new home owner does not understand what 240 VAT means and plugs in the old aluminum bodied hand drill he inherited from his dad?

    The proper way to do it is to install a 240 Volt receptacle and then swap out the ESVE cord's plug for a 240 volt compatible plug. Second best is an adapter that is glued or otherwise permanently connected to the plug of the ESVE cord.
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  13. Refurbmike

    Refurbmike New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2021
    9
    1
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    Well, I had it re-done today to a dryer outlet. Now it's time to create Rob43's adapter cable.
     
  14. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    3,920
    4,377
    0
    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    With so much good advice being given, and which will apparently be completely ignored, my 30+ years of military and civilian electronics and electrical experience and maybe even just 'people experience' leads me to say......

    Laaadieeeessss and Gentlemen......may I present to you the next contestant in this years gameshow "2021 Darwin Awards". Please place your over and under bets......
     
    Mavi, Steph1972 and jerrymildred like this.
  15. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    14,600
    8,071
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    But this doesn't work with Toyota's EVSE cord, because there is a temperature sensor embedded in the plug. Cut off the original plug for replacement, and that sensor is gone. IIRC, that disables the system.

     
    jerrymildred and Merkey like this.
  16. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    14,600
    8,071
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Maybe this is why Rob no longer visits here?

    Rob's version can be used improperly, but at least it comes with warnings and can easily be made captive to the EVSE cord. But your version is not captive, and is much more accessible to other people ignorant to its intended use, so has a far higher likelihood of being used improperly and catastrophically.

    There is a very important reason that you cannot buy a pre-made version this adapter from any regular retailer in the U.S., the legal liability is very high. If you really want a pre-made one, I wouldn't be surprised if you just might find it on Alibaba.com, but that isn't U.S.-based.
     
    pghyndman, jerrymildred and Merkey like this.
  17. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    397
    209
    0
    Location:
    Near Silicon Valley
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    That's your best bet. A little advice. When you label it, the label should emphasize that it's a single purpose adapter. You will want to make sure it's readable and understandable.
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  18. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    9,459
    11,547
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    Large sigh of relief here. It's very likely that you saved someone's life. Now, when you make that adapter, make sure it's secured to the cable and not left hanging from the dryer outlet when not in use.

    By the way, when you wrap the wires onto the terminals on the plugs, do you know which way to wrap it? It makes a big difference.
     
  19. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    9,459
    11,547
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    Good catch, Fuzzy. I believe you're right; cutting off the plug and replacing it isn't an option.
     
  20. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    4,930
    2,010
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    Given what you have already done.......YOU should not pick any of them.
    Seriously.

    And the big question is: Did you plug your 120 V charger into that outlet ?
    If so, did it smoke anything ??
     
Loading...