1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

DIY plug-in conversion Gen1 Prius

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by der_Denis, Nov 5, 2014.

  1. der_Denis

    der_Denis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
    47
    22
    0
    Location:
    Germany
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    If testing goes well, then later this year or beginning of 2016.

    I did the range testing in the last days.
    Conclusion:
    highway driving (distance driven: 82 km (~51miles)), consumption: 4.2L / 100 km (56 mpg), average speed ~100km/h (60mph)
    city driving: EV distance (estimated): 40 km (24mi).

    Distance driven in EV mode in the city: 20 km (12mi). Battery depletion 50%. To get to 40 km in EV mode, i need to suppress ICE from starting.
    Planning to install EV button to fully utilize EV mode in the first gen. Prius.

    I'll post the new distance data once EV mode is activated.

    Regards,
    Denis
     

    Attached Files:

  2. der_Denis

    der_Denis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
    47
    22
    0
    Location:
    Germany
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Blended mode in city
     

    Attached Files:

  3. der_Denis

    der_Denis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
    47
    22
    0
    Location:
    Germany
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Has anyone tried to force NWH11 to an EV mode ?

    Do i need to take a fuse or a relay out?

    Some time ago i saw some posts on removing a fuel pump fuse to prevent ICE from firing up.
    I checked the wiring. But i was not sure which one to take out, didn't have time to play with every one of them either.

    Does anyone have some experience?
    Thanks!
    Denis
     
  4. der_Denis

    der_Denis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
    47
    22
    0
    Location:
    Germany
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Hi everyone,

    I was driving a small uphill and suddenly prius went off of the power as if a full buttery become immediately empty.
    Conditions:
    *Full plug in battery
    *Prius was in its conventional mode, no EV button, no trickering with fuses or relays.
    Since the Li-Ion battery was fully charged the car was able to keep the ICE shut. But when the uphill started, the car drove 500 meter on electric mode then died. Switching off and on with the key helped.
    When the car went off the power the engine light and the brake light turned on.

    Has anyone experienced something like this?

    Thanks,
    Denis
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,141
    15,400
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Need miniVCI data.

    Pure speculation, I'm wondering if the inverter temps and/or MG2 temps might have gone too high?

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. der_Denis

    der_Denis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
    47
    22
    0
    Location:
    Germany
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Thanks Bod,

    I should receive miniVCI soon.
    I had similar suspicion on the temps.

    Regards,
    Denis
     
  7. der_Denis

    der_Denis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
    47
    22
    0
    Location:
    Germany
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Update: operation of the vehicle

     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  8. vaughnstark777

    Joined:
    May 4, 2012
    180
    33
    0
    Location:
    Roy, WA
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Model:
    I
    So, 40km =(aprox) 25 miles, 25 miles =(aprox) 1/2 gallon (2 liters). Here on the American west coast that translates to $1 to $1.50 in savings per charge. Let's say I get to charge it 3 to 5 times per tank full. That translates to about $5 in savings every 500 miles or so.
    If my calculations are correct and your kit were to only cost $1000 (probably alot more) it will take 100,000 miles to brake even.
    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,141
    15,400
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I appreciate the effort needed to make the NHW11 function as a plug-in. I don't care about 'payback' as the technical challenges alone were impressive.

    The only thing I'd rather see would be someone who rips out the ICE; loads more batteries, and; makes a fully EV version Prius using both MG1 and MG2 together.

    Bob Wilson
     
    usnavystgc likes this.
  10. der_Denis

    der_Denis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
    47
    22
    0
    Location:
    Germany
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Here in Germany 1 kW costs approx 0.2 € at home, or it's free at some charging stations.
    1 litter of petrol costs around 1.3 - 1.5€, say 1.4€

    Calculating: 1 litter (1.4€) gives around 18 km. 7 kW (1.4€) of electricity gives approx 56 km. Thus it's 3 times cheaper to run on electricity. When does it pay off, i don't care, as my initial intention wasn't focused on that.
    If that's the goal, tell me when the big spoiler or custom wheels or noisy exhaust pay off ...
    Walking pays off immediately as it's free and you stay healthy.
     
    valde3 and bwilson4web like this.
  11. der_Denis

    der_Denis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
    47
    22
    0
    Location:
    Germany
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Thanks Bob, but currently i couldn't manage to resolve all the challenges, however i'll try to address them.

    Nowadays I drive in electric mode, and i have to admit I got used to it very fast. I also came thinking to remove the ICE and switch to fully EV. But it will require to replace the inverter as it is rather weak, the MG1 and MG2 system on it's own can not go faster than 70 kmh, so no highway unless replaced. But maybe i'll have enough time in the future to go fully EV in HHW11.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  12. vaughnstark777

    Joined:
    May 4, 2012
    180
    33
    0
    Location:
    Roy, WA
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Forgive me for sounding negative, I guess I assumed the idea was to produce this for the market. I didn't realize purpose was to show us your engineering skills.

    It is an impressive accomplishment you should be proud.
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,141
    15,400
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Now if he knows how to fix a diesel TDI . . . Hummm, rip out the guts and replace it with this hack? <GRINS>

    Bob Wilson
     
  14. der_Denis

    der_Denis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
    47
    22
    0
    Location:
    Germany
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Don't get it wrong, if people are interested in saving money, that's completely fine, i myself barely managed to get this project running on the PhD student's salary.
    There is a commercial potential in it, i have to license and register it before giving any numbers on the price.
     
  15. vaughnstark777

    Joined:
    May 4, 2012
    180
    33
    0
    Location:
    Roy, WA
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Model:
    I
    "i myself barely managed to get this project running on the PhD student's salary."

    Forgive me for the digression here but I have to ask, do you get paid to go to school?
     
  16. der_Denis

    der_Denis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
    47
    22
    0
    Location:
    Germany
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Offtopic indeed. It depends, you might get a scholarship.
     
  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,141
    15,400
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus


    If you get a chance, I would be interested in a study of warm-up fuel consumption. Let me explain why.

    We know that warm-up burns about 25-30% of the fuel reaching the engine coolant temperature of 70C. Below this temperature, the engine has to run constantly. Once the hybrid control laws take effect, over 70C, the engine can shutdown at every opportunity (*).

    Over the years, I've experimented with engine block heater and 'spoofing' the engine coolant sensor to get up to 70C faster:

    1) block heater saves about 1 minute of the typical 5 minute warm-up
    2) sensor spoof saves over 3 minutes of the 5 minute warm-up

    One of the features of the Plug-In Prius is the ability to move on electric power while the engine runs at idle to warm-up. This in effect avoids loading the engine during warm-up when it is especially inefficient. So I am wondering if you have a similar capability.

    It only takes about 5 minutes to reach 70C depending upon cold-start temperature. If the traction battery has a higher buss voltage indicating more than 60% SOC, the car in warm-up should 'off load' the engine and reduce the warm-up fuel consumption.

    The reason this is important is the possibility of pre-charging the traction battery to 80% SOC and using the energy between 80% to 60% to 'off-load' the engine during warm-up.

    Bob Wilson

    * - after reaching 70C, the car needs to be stopped in idle for ~30 seconds. When the engine auto-stops, the hybrid control laws are in effect.
     
  18. der_Denis

    der_Denis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
    47
    22
    0
    Location:
    Germany
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    this is a good one. But i use a different strategy.

    Correct, this works according to the hybrid laws. If in a blended mode, once i start a car, the ICE gets warmed up while loaded by the generator. But us soon as i turn the kit on (giving that the voltage in the kit battery is high), the HyPCU detects enough voltage in the battery and off loads the ICE from the generator.

    Last time i charge the kit battery, and then coupled both batteries, in order to have a stock battery in a region of 80% SoC. Next time when i started the car, the ICE was spinning the MG1 only for a few seconds.

    Though I use one feature of prius which used to be annoying but now it's rather helpful. Namely, when the car is left for some time under moist conditions, say rain, it will trigger an error once you start the car. This has been reported by many NHW11 owners. The ICE starts, works for some seconds then shuts off. But you can still drive in electric mode. So that's what i utilize for my city driving. If i need ICE working, i restart the car, put it into "N" for 5 seconds, then drive normally in a blended mode.
    As i mostly drive in the city, i don't really have a full warm up cycle, basically instead of 5 minutes or until the engine is 70C it runs for some seconds.

    I've noticed something else. When in blended mode, ICE undergoes warm up cycle, then goes off. As long as i have enough juice in the battery and don't drive faster than 60-ish kmh (37,5 mph) the ICE would not go on even if it becomes as cold as the outside temperature. It does go on however when a strong acceleration is required and/or a high speed is needed. It looks like hybrid laws assume only one warm up cycle at instance the car is turned on.

    Unfortunately i can't elaborate on the warm up fuel consumption.

    For this i'm planning to switch to E85 and forget about crude oil environmental disaster and the price, as E85 is 50% cheaper than regular gas and beneficial for both a car and a driver.

    What i would be interested in is to enhance regenerative breaking. (one step closer to a fully electric car).

    Regards,
    Denis
     
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,141
    15,400
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    My testing suggests up to E50-55, the ICE runs without throwing a fuel trim code. The code can be ignored but it turns on the check engine light.

    More thoughts later when I don't have to thumb type,

    Bob Wilson
     
  20. der_Denis

    der_Denis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
    47
    22
    0
    Location:
    Germany
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Others also reported similar case. Around 50% mixture would not rigger an engine light, where as higher Ethanol content would.
    The engine light comes on when the O2 sensor detects out of range O2 consumption, as ethanol burns consuming less oxygen (if i'm wrong please correct me). This error, i assume, does not affect anything, because when the regular petrol is used, the engine check light goes away.
    Some owners install FlexFuel (or other name, there are plenty) add-on control computers into injection control lines, or tweak the injection parameters via CAN or OBD2. Most of the cars after 1999 are FlexFuel capable, but that feature is often disabled by default.

    Regards,
    Denis