Do the mileage figures make sense?

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by kgall, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    For every day cars, yes. Only on specific performance vehicles will you see them equipped with summer tires (And sometimes it's only a package within that high performance model).
     
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  2. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    I pointed this out also, he got 140 MPG in his best efforts. I think this is also due to inverter efficiency improvement and maybe lower parasitic losses. Inverter in Prius is >60kW, it's really hard do make an efficient inverter in that size that will have efficiency when you only need couple of kW from it. Renault Zoe comes to my mind, because they had 44 kW 3-faze AC charger on board, when you charge it at only 2 kW from your normal house hold socket, you have massive charging loses. It's possible that Toyota really did something in this regard.

    I would also like to note that EU energy label does not account tire aerodynamic loses, anyone that has driven a mountain bike must know what I'm talking about. There are also NanoEnergy1 that is better in the wet but they come only in 15" size and are almost double the price the NanoEnergy2.

    As for the all season tires, it's interesting what power can a market have on a tire trade off. Americans demand all season tire with the longest possible life, Europeans demand best performance from independent tests and almost every one is changing between winter and summer tires in the regions where m+s tires are mandatory in winter. Even same tire models that in US are branded as all-season are branded as summer in EU, even though they have m+s markings.
     
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  3. Maxwell61

    Maxwell61 Active Member

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    My god, what is the sense of giving all seasons tires to CA, FL, AR, TX and so on.... more fuel consumption, more wear, more noise, less grip....

    Excellent consideration, i never tought about it, the ZOE comparison is telling, i don't remember the calculated efficiency of the 3 kw charging but i do remember it was unacceptable, and in fact, the fast charging has been changed....

    Strangely enough, the Nano 1 disappeared from the main Toyo jap website, now they mention just the 2 and the 0.
    ナノエナジー スペシャルサイト│トーヨータイヤ

    True. But if you're in the south of EU, not even winter tires, but chains for the occasional problem, as i do in Italy.

    Honestly, i think is total technical non-sense to put so much effort to gain 4% mileage, and dismiss a 10% achievable with tires already commercially available..... it makes you thinking ther's something wrong around... and i'm not talking about Toyota (only), but the extremely marginal interest all the car manufacturers (and individuals) put on high quality LLR tires.... ther's no possible justification..
     
    #43 Maxwell61, Nov 30, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2015
  4. Maxwell61

    Maxwell61 Active Member

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    Here we are, an indication on how to get the new Prius IV improuvement of 4% on exisisting gen 3 :)

    From the Toyo website, my Nanoenergy 2 "AAA" (Japan code corresponding to EU "A") on rolling resistance, if placed at the place of a very common "C" class, that i believe is the current class for the stock EU gen 3 Prius, gives exactly 4% more mileage, look beside the video:

    ナノエナジー2│ナノエナジー スペシャルサイト│トーヨータイヤ

    Believe me, with those tires, glides are neverending....

    PS: as for the non-sense, my Auris HSD 2013 was supplied new with Dunlop "E" RR class.... no comment.... from this, the 12% improv.

    And that produce another question: how much of the 4% extramileage of the IV nonECO relative to gen 3, comes from the stock 422 plus relative to the actual gen3 tires ? ...........
     
    #44 Maxwell61, Nov 30, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2015
  5. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    quite possibly real huge difference is that you can drive on electric up to 70mph.
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    One of the gen 3 tires in 15" was Ecopia EP20, they're no slouch. If anything, their RR is slightly better than the EP422, just hazarding a guess.
     
  7. Habnar

    Habnar Junior Member

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    Yes, you are right!
     
  8. Maxwell61

    Maxwell61 Active Member

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    The Ep20 slightly better for mpg? From this thread, where you personally contributed, it seems to me all way round, unless more accurate measurement has corrected some few customer's impression:

    Feedback of Ecopia EP422 plus? | PriusChat
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    One issue with the EP20, they are only available in 195/65R15. If I was shopping for that size I'd pick them over the EP422, or EP422 plus. My OEM size now is 215/45R17, so EP20 is not an option.

    But when I'm shopping for 195/65R15, I'd prefer EP20. I've done that a couple of times now.
     
  10. Maxwell61

    Maxwell61 Active Member

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    the 140 mpg was in city driving, and i don't think you can get it with the gen3, no?
    On highway the result was in the area of 90's, which in any case was a great achievement.
     
  11. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    who knows exactly, but maybe it can do more in electric mode than before? c already had some improvements in that.

    I cant wait to actually see and try the vehicle.... i feel like we have explored the maximum that can be explored without seeing/driving it on our own.
     
  12. Maxwell61

    Maxwell61 Active Member

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    Yes, i'm terribly curious myself for some testing spwolf, altough a definite comparison of what Wayne's got with the gen3 could be interesting. At the end he is likely a better hypermiler than most of us.
    I have to double check, but if i remember well, he's got a max 80's mpg with the Prius C, i'll go to browse.
     
  13. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    i am not hypermiler at all... but i like the fact that i would be able to get better real life mpg... a lots of journos got well over 50's real life mpg, even 60s, where with G3 a lot of had low 40's even 30's.
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It comes down to the price difference. By the sound of it, the Two and the ECO should have about the same price.

    California and Arizona both have mountains that see snow every year. Then the summer tires available here are mostly performance ones that have more grip, but at the expense of greater wear and more fuel use than most all seasons. They also tend to have poorer wet traction.
    Or your 'summer' tires are really all-seasons.
     
  15. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    CA and AZ (AR is Arkansas) have mountains that get snow. TX very occasionally gets snow but they also get a lot of rain if a tropical depression (or even a hurricane) brushes by.

    Also, in terms of distribution, it's easier to have the whole country shipped with one type of tyre. Lastly, it also ensures that someone buying a car out-of-state gets the same car and doesn't have to change the tyres.
     
  16. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    The reason all m+s tires in EU doesn't get all-season markings from the manufacturer is simply because this tires suck in winter conditions and no one wants bad press. This is how all-season tire test looks like in Germany:


    ADAC Test 2014 Ganzjahresreifen 195/65R15




    mangelhaft = poor, inadequate

    And this then becomes "generally known fact" in public, even if normal John wouldn't notice any difference.
     
  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    All seasons are at a disadvantage to snows any lower than 7C, even on bare roads. That's my criteria for when to put them on.
     
  18. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I was hoping Toyota had actually under shot on their initial released numbers.
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    The improvement is "incremental", about what you'd expect considering the time that's passed. But what of the gulf between earlier Toyota's claims and the final numbers? The Eco seems more and more a token vehicle, a face saver. Apart from the Eco, the combined goes from 50 mpg from 52. That's 4%.
     
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