Do You BELIEVE Islam is, in Essence, a "PEACEFUL" Religion?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 2 2007, 09:00 AM) [snapback]433856[/snapback]</div>

i always prefer a [+] spin to a [-] one :lol:

the problem is that Jews rarely get any [+] spin - we seem to be the root of all the worlds evil, an easy target to place in the crosshairs. for such a small population of people we seem to cause problems far in excess of our numbers --- the middle east crisis for one ---- how we possibly can keep down millions and millions of arabs is amazing, we cause them to send the children to homocide bomb Jewish pizzerias, we cause them to kidnap our soldiers, we cause them to launch missiles into Israel against civilian targets every day, we cause them to elect a government whose declared purpose is to destroy Israel --- jeeeeeez, 5 million Jews on a piece of land the size of Rhode Island causes hundreds of millions of arabs in millions of square miles of oil rich land so much grief - how is it possible?

how is it possible there is no arab peace movement?

how is it possible there have been no arab peace governments?

how is it possible there have been no arab concessions towards peace?

you want to racially profile people - do you need to profile for the jew boarding the plane or the train or the mall or the arab?????? i dont no of too many jews exploding themselves on european subways or trains or driving planes into buildings - do you??

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 2 2007, 09:25 AM) [snapback]433869[/snapback]</div>

We have one million people in Rhode Island- and that's too damn crowded!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 2 2007, 09:36 AM) [snapback]433876[/snapback]</div>

my own view as to why Jews tend to achieve is that it is part of our teachings to educate ourselves, to better ourselves, to better the world around us, to challenge ourselves, not to settle for what is. i also think there is a tendancy to choose professions we can take with us if we are forced to move - it is easier to learn a language than a profession - they can take our homes, they cannot take our minds our intellect.

in terms of the Holy Land - it is not the size of the space, it is an unwillingness on the arab part to live in peace or even settle as has been demonstrated time and time again. Israel has sued for peace, has given up land, has offered major concessions as demonstrated by Oslo - what have the arabs offered for peace???? name one thing?

we gave back south lebanon in 2000 with UN guarantees and arab guarantees for peace - we got war.

we gave back gaza last year for nothing in return - we get thousands of rockets launched into israel - another form of war.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 2 2007, 09:53 AM) [snapback]433891[/snapback]</div>

i have been to rhode island, briefly i would never have guessed that many people live there.

 

Jews used terrorism to found Israel.
Christians used terrorism in the Crusades.
Islam is no more or less peaceful than any other.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkMN @ May 1 2007, 09:16 AM) [snapback]433273[/snapback]</div>

This is the best and most cogent posting in this thread. I have an intense dislike of religion because of the way people all around me beat me over the head with their religion all through my formative years and my teen years. Perhaps i was wrong in assigning the adjective "violent" to religion as such. When there is violence, it is people who are the perpetrators. However, when those people adhere to a religion, they very often cite their religion as a justification for their violence.

I withdraw my characterization of religion as violent. I'll say instead, that massive amounts of violence have been done in the name of religion. There are very very few religions that have not been used in this way.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 2 2007, 08:36 AM) [snapback]433876[/snapback]</div>

During my undergrad degree, I studied Race-theory, and the basis behind it.

One of the interesting, early forms of Racism was a division of the world into unique groups... not always in a negative light, just always....Racialized. This was racism, at its most core level.

Interestingly, the original classifications sounded like this:

White, Europeans: Balanced. Well versed. Well rounded.

Black, Africans: Dumb. Animals, with brute strength and athletic prowess, but little else

Orientals (not my word): Smart, lacking in emotion

Semites (originally referred only to Jews): Overly Legalistic. Manipulative.


I'm not implying or suggesting anything other than to say that clearly, your generalization of Jewish belief and practice falls into this sort of "Racialism" (not, I said RaciaLism, not racism).


Also, as a practicing Jew, I would be thrilled if most American Jews studied and observed the religion as much as you suggest. This, sadly, is no where NEAR the case....



D

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Display Name @ May 2 2007, 09:06 AM) [snapback]433903[/snapback]</div>

Jews never used terrorism against people to found Israel... always against infrastructure.

The one exception, is of course, the bombing of the King David hotel (a hotel which, incidentally, I pass by everyday on my way to my studies), which did not target civilians. Instead, the operator at the King David did not properly pass on the warning that was given to him by the Haganah.... and even today in Israel, the anniversary of this day is marked and mourned.... (this is not to say there haven't been Jewish terrorists. I'm sure there have been. There are in fact settlers in the West Bank who use this. They are despicable, and disgusting. A disgrace to their people and their religion. However, there has never been systematic Jewish terrorism.)


In addition, to those who speak of Joshua as an example of violence by Judaism, I should point out that Joshua, though a member of the Children of Jacob (the Israelites, etc...), existed LONG before Judaism as the religion we know it today did. Today's Judaism was founded around the time of Jesus, and more completely, with the destruction of the 2nd Temple in 70 CE.


Shalom Aleichem--- (peace onto everyone)


Daniel

 

<Any Religion> is peacefull - <Any Religion> followers are not.

peace

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 2 2007, 10:06 AM) [snapback]433947[/snapback]</div>

I disagree with you. YOUR post is the best and most cogent that I have seen so far. Truly.

It is a shame, and a disgrace to all people everywhere, religious or otherwise, who use any sort of violence in the name of any religion. And it is even more of a disgrace when the leaders of those religions do not then stand up and proclaim to high heaven that these people are wrong!

My hero is instead Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel.

He's the one on the right.


THIS is true religion.

THIS is my religion.



I should point out, this is a man who escaped from the Holocaust, and was already old when he made it to America.




"My religion is very simple. My religion is Kindness"
--His Holiness, the 14th Dalai Lama of Tibet

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BongoSTL @ May 2 2007, 11:09 AM) [snapback]433949[/snapback]</div>

I agree with you. I think you will find a lot of what i refer to as modern day Jews - Jews who may not be so observant but are very strong supporters of Israel. I am constantly amazed at the level of participation in fund raising and political involvement here in the US directed at supporting the State of Israel.

I have noted that you guys recently stood back up. I was amazed that Olmert has stayed in office so long. As a student of Arab-Israeli wars the last one was quite the debacle for us and from my perspective a DISASTER for Israel - self inflicted I might add. I am amazed that one of the parents who had lost a child in the last war did not go after Olmert personally.

My hope is that Israel has woken up and is now preparing for the next round of the war which i believe is not far in the offing. It is admirable to grow an economy and a future which Israel has been great at, it is stupid to let your guard down which is what Israel has done. My only fear in that the will that once was the trademark of the IDF is not there to the same degree as it was earlier in Israel's history.

Of note, in my krav maga class there is a young man making alliya and will be joining the IDF later this year or early next year - he tells me there are a number of young American Jews doing the same.

Best of luck my friend,
Next year in Jerusalem.

David

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BongoSTL @ May 2 2007, 11:16 AM) [snapback]433949[/snapback]</div>

The King David Hotel was also a base for the British Military, no?

And i find it interesting that there is ONE "terror" episode that they go to, can they name another?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 2 2007, 10:33 AM) [snapback]433965[/snapback]</div>

I agree with you that Gentile and Goyim can be offensive terms. But they are not inherently so. They are the same word, gentile being the english of Goy (goyim being plural). It actually, though, just means 'Nation' or 'nations', and in fact can be used to refer to the Jewish nation, too (if you look at the prayer 'tachanun', it is used this way). And even at it's most offensive level, it simply means 'non-jew'.

But that is a digression. These words can be hateful---and should never be used that way. Never. And I apologize if they have been used that way to you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 2 2007, 11:52 AM) [snapback]433981[/snapback]</div>

Nicley put there Squid!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 2 2007, 10:52 AM) [snapback]433981[/snapback]</div>

I think it's an interesting theory....

the problem that arises from this is that the most inclusive, least exclusionary Judaism in the world is Reform Judaism. It is welcoming and inviting (though never proselytizing)... and it started in Germany, which had the most welcoming and assimilated jews in the world...... And this, of course, is where Hitler arose.....

A really good book about it that I've read is The New Anti-Semitism: The Current Crisis and What We Must Do About It by Phyllis Chesler... I think it traces both the history of the events, and the development of antisemitic philosophy.... it's a well researched book, and a good read.



Daniel



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BongoSTL @ May 2 2007, 11:22 AM) [snapback]434000[/snapback]</div>

I meant to add that the idea of Judaism as an exclusionary religion is also often misunderstood...


In fact the Midrash tells us that the Jews received the Torah (bible) NOT because they deserved it, but in fact because they were the only people who accepted it.

Now, whether you believe this story or not, it does tell us something anthropologically when a people tells a story like this about itself....

In addition, Jews believe that being "chosen" (i.e. the 'chosen people') refers to being chosen to having the OBLIGATION of the commandments of the Torah. However, a non-Jew who is a good person, and follows basic, moral laws (the 7 Noahide laws, as they are known), is the equal to the most devout and observatn Jew, according to Rabbinic tradition....

Just some thoughts.......


(also, the ideas of Jewish exclusion arose, I believe, primarily as a defense mechanism. We were always being killed and threatened... so we turned inward, where it was safe.)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 2 2007, 11:52 AM) [snapback]433981[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BongoSTL @ May 2 2007, 12:22 PM) [snapback]434000[/snapback]</div>

Both very well stated & thought out posts. Along with what Squid has mentioned, I think there's a second possible cause for some anti-semitism (and this is more on a local level than on a larger scale). There are, unfortunately, some people who use the claim of anti-semitism like a club.

By way of example, where I live there is a large seasonal influx of Jewish residents. I've heard reports of some of these residents claiming anti-semitism when the local police pull them over for speeding or other traffic violations. Or with local merchants when they don't get what they want.

It's only a few that do this, but it gives people a vastly incorrect impression. It's over-use of the the "victim" tag. This is the same kind of thing that people complain about Al Sharpton doing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 2 2007, 06:25 AM) [snapback]433869[/snapback]</div>

I agree with your statement above but to be fair to the Muslim's, who have won 9 Nobel Prizes during the life of the prize, 5 of those have been Nobel Peace Prizes the most recognizable names are Anwar El-Sadat, 1978 and Yasser Arafat, 1994.

Wildkow

 

To answer the title of this thread..

NO.

I do not think Islam, in essence, is a PEACEFUL religion.

I think there are plenty of Muslims that are peaceful, but as a Religion.. an organized group - not so much.

Islamic Protests in London, I believe..


A woman being stoned to death, because she commited "adultery" (ie. got raped)





..... cue the "but but but but but the Christian Crusades!" typical liberal response.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BongoSTL @ May 2 2007, 08:21 AM) [snapback]433960[/snapback]</div>

Your images do not show up. It works best if you upload the actual image to PC, rather than trying to link to an outside source.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 2 2007, 08:33 AM) [snapback]433965[/snapback]</div>

As used by those few of my relatives who speak some Yiddish, "gentile" is the polite word for non-Jew. Just as a Christian might say "non-Christian" to refer to anyone who is not a Christian. Gentile merely means a person who is not a Jew. "Goy" (plural: goyim) is the word they use when they are speaking disparragingly. None of my surviving relatives is a fluent Yiddish-speaker, however, so I cannot say what tone the word has in Yiddish, as opposed to when it is interjected into English.

 

The main reasons for Islamic terrorism come from living a life without hope/food/peace/etc. In these dire circumstances, many people turn to their religion. Unfortunately, there is enough warlike language in the Quran (and in other holy books too) that some decide terrorism is a righteous choice, and possibly their only "way out" of a hellhole life.

As for Israel/Palestine, there wouldn't be such a problem with terrorism if the Palestinians had decent jobs, land, trade, and government. Some of these problems are self-inflicted by their leaders. Others stem back from the creation of Israel, when many Palestinians were displaced, and are made worse by every retaliatory strike from Israel, roadblock through the occupied territories, or cut off of aid from other countries, etc. Someone mentioned that there was no Jewish terrorism against human targets during the formation of Israel. Moving people off their land and destroying their buildings and way of life is still an act of violence.

And we have done it here in the US, and continue to. No, I don't think religion is what is violent. Any group of people becomes violent because they feel threatened OR because their leaders feel powerful and the population is complacent/complicit. Religion is simply one of the ways we categorize people into these groups that are struggling to survive on this planet.