Do you listen to NPR? If you do, are you then a liberal?

I just have to post this because it fits the bill so perfectly. Consider closely the third panel.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jun 6 2007, 10:35 AM) [snapback]456639[/snapback]</div>

Luddite!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jun 6 2007, 01:24 PM) [snapback]456635[/snapback]</div>

I think it you had bothered to read my post, you would have noticed that I said I used to listen to NPR and still do sometimes.

In fact, I listened and was a financial supporter for apx. 12 years.

And when (and how) did I say I wanted to promote my Christian agenda? Did I say that NPR should run sermons or bible studies?

Quit making this stuff up about me!

And while you're at it, please tell me what my Christian agenda is. (I thought it was a personal thing between God and me. Is he talking to you behind my back? Do your liberal friends know you are listening?)

You could be excommunicated from your local Starbucks. But before you jump to judgment on me there about What Could A Moron Like VW Know About the Elevated Plain That is Starbucks, you should know that they do not discriminate and actually served me just over an hour ago. In fact, it is their caffeine that is talking to you right now.....)

Have a deadline. Goodbye.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(formerVWdriver @ Jun 6 2007, 03:30 PM) [snapback]456742[/snapback]</div>

VW, (If I may call you that)... I would like to thank you for the thoughtful and intellegent reply. It's amazing how many things have develved to stereotypes lately. Burito seems to see you as some kind of FOXotomiton idiot... and I'm sure many conservatives think NPR listeners are Pretentious Starbuck Drinking, Prius Driving Pussies, but it's amazing how interesting the discussions can become when we look beyond our own shallow pre-conceptions.

Burito... VW drives a Prius, so clearly he thinks beyond shollow talking points, don't be so fast to judge. The man/woman clearly has well thought through beleifs, so I don't think it's neccesary to bait a reply.

I too have work, but I would like to continue the intellegent design discusion some more later... here are a few of my thoughts:

Personally, I believe that the true beuty of the creation we live in is that it was made in such a perfect form as to continue to evolve and grow. I doubt God micromanages though miracles. The creation is so perfect as to not require such micromanagement. I beleive Genesis was an elegant explanation best suited to the limited knowledge that people had at the time it was written. I also feel that it is a diservice to the faith to not allow this truth to be expanded and interpreted in such a manner as to become confluent with scientific truth. I beleive literal interpretation of Genesis is trickery of the devil to discredit the holy book. Church leaders who follow this view are serving to lead thier congregants toward Apostasy.

(Pardon the big words, I can't pretend to be a great writer ;-)

I'd also like to ask you, VW, what principles make you view yourself as a conservative?

And for a humourous tounge in cheek view on those who ake the intellegent design movement way to far i direct you to MC Frontalot's brilliant (or at least fun) song "Origin of the Species" (Lyrics) (iTunes Link)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(formerVWdriver @ Jun 6 2007, 03:30 PM) [snapback]456742[/snapback]</div>

VW guy, if you feel that you have been persecuted here, I would remind you that you were the first with the insults:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(formerVWdriver @ Jun 5 2007, 10:41 PM) [snapback]456240[/snapback]</div>

Yes, believe it or not, some of us latte-drinking, wine drinking, NPR-listening liberals are actually critical thinkers who don't automatically believe what we hear, regardless of the source.
I listen to NPR frequently; the news reporting is certainly as unbiased as anyone's and the commentary and guest views span the range from conservative to liberal. BTW, very little of your tax dollars fund NPR; they primarily depend on listener contributions (and unfortunatly, corporate sponsors).
I have never heard "outright personal attacks on Bush" on any NPR program. Perhaps I missed them- could you please be so kind as to document these attacks?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Jun 6 2007, 03:44 PM) [snapback]456753[/snapback]</div>

Such a close parallel! I can see why you took the trouble to post.

Why, as a matter of fact, as a Christian I am deeply offended. I am so offended that I set my neighbor's car on fire, strapped explosives to my child and sent him into a restaurant, where he detonated not only himself and 12 others but, praise Satan, blinded and maimed several other children who will suffer the rest of their lives. Then I burned down a school because there were Girls getting educated, and I issued death threats against several cartoonists, pundits and playwrights because they poked fun, and fun is just not funny.

Be careful, or when December rolls around, I might just wish you a Merry Christmas!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jun 6 2007, 05:00 PM) [snapback]456824[/snapback]</div>

First off, I didn't mean to insult. I think I'm funny but I guess that is in the realm of the unprovable and perhaps I should quit believing it, as sometimes written humor by an unknown voice comes off the wrong way.

My belief is not the stuff of rationalization, but of personal experience. God has revealed himself to me and is active in my life. I will not try to convert you or your children beyond praying for you and them, and I will forget to keep doing that in a few days so you are safe.

You are a child of God, created by him for special purposes only you can fill. You are beautifully and wondrously made.

I believe in separation of church and state. I believe in freedom OF religion, not FROM religion. That means I get bent out of shape when somebody wants to take "In God We Trust" off of my worthless pennies. The Ten Commandments are not on display in my church, and I don't know why I would think they should be on display in your town hall or wherever. Go in peace.

I never identified myself with Jerry Falwell or the Moral Majority, whoever they are/were. Are they still around? No doubt your vote and mine cancel each other's out. You owe me no apology either way. I would like to think that there is a moral majority, but I suspect not. If there was one, I would like to be a part but might not qualify.

Greenkeeper, big words or not, your analysis of how to view creation is beautiful. You said: "Personally, I believe that the true beuty of the creation we live in is that it was made in such a perfect form as to continue to evolve and grow. I doubt God micromanages though miracles. The creation is so perfect as to not require such micromanagement. I beleive Genesis was an elegant explanation best suited to the limited knowledge that people had at the time it was written. I also feel that it is a diservice to the faith to not allow this truth to be expanded and interpreted in such a manner as to become confluent with scientific truth. I beleive literal interpretation of Genesis is trickery of the devil to discredit the holy book. Church leaders who follow this view are serving to lead thier congregants toward Apostasy."

We differ in that I believe God does micromanage (though I would call it intimate involvement) and believe that he is present over the earth in even more abundance than the air.

As for how I'm a conservative, I'd have to say in the usual ways: belief in personal responsibility, free enterprise, small government, private sector solutions to societal problems, pro-gun ownership (but not assault weapons), lower taxes, enforcing immigration laws, securing the borders, strong defense and apple pie.

I think we need to completely rethink the way we are doing some things. For instance, at the high school closest to me it is the norm for girls to get pregnant (I was told this by the guidance counselor). The school provides day care, which is our system certainly having its heart in the right place but its brains elsewhere. It perpetuates the problem by enabling it. I wish I knew how to get these girls headed for a better life, but I don't. I understand from the guidance counselor that the majority of these girls she deals with expect to be on welfare. It is heartbreaking.

I think we need to make this option less attractive. I read somewhere long, long ago of an alternative: provide rice, beans and two other foods that I've forgotten in bulk for free (at taxpayer expense) at every grocery store. These four foods would provide a reasonably healthy diet. Only provide food stamps for milk or something like that. (People who are more informed than me are welcome to take shots at me -- I'm just trying to give a general outline of a different approach. I do not have it worked out and am not running for office.) The idea is that you'd cut out the administrative costs for the food stamp program while still feeding the hungry, but because the foods are not all that exciting, people would literally be hungry for something different, and would be motivated to change. I am doing a lousy job of presenting this idea but I think you can see the fundamentals.

Of course, these foods are already what my vegetarian friends are eating. Just think! You get great MPG with your Prius and your food is free. What a great country!

And my comment about does anybody around here work was mostly directed at me. NO. But I need to! Bye!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(formerVWdriver @ Jun 6 2007, 04:57 PM) [snapback]456877[/snapback]</div>

I get bent of of shape that "In God We Trust" is on U.S. money. It's not always been there, it was first added to coins in 1864 and on all coins by 1938. It was passed as the U.S.A.'s offical motto is 1954. Except that I don't trust in God because I don't believe in God. It is not the government's place to proclaim that I do.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(formerVWdriver @ Jun 6 2007, 04:57 PM) [snapback]456877[/snapback]</div>

You don't know anyone on welfare nor have ever been on it yourself have you? Welfare and food stamps are just barely enough to scrap by. States already have your system in place. TN has little "WIC Approved" stickers in stores that let those on welfare know what items they are allowed to by. It is based on nutritional content.

Maybe, we should actually teach our children about sex and sexuality. I know it's a strange idea but maybe if they know about sex and pregnancy and how to prevent it they wont get pregnant. There is a reason that the US has the highest rate on teen pregnancy in the developed world. It's because those that have declared sex as "dirty" don't allow us to teach our children the "birds and the bees". My mother is a health teacher in high school. The questions that the kids ask her are frightening especially considering that most of them are actively having sex but have no concept of birth control. She took a poll and most of the kids in her class thought you couldn't get pregnant your first time, that if you have sex standing up she won't get pregnant, that if you have sex on your period your fine, etc. IT IS SCARY HOW LITTLE THEY KNOW!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ Jun 6 2007, 04:48 PM) [snapback]456808[/snapback]</div>

Garrison Keillor so many times I had to quit listening.
Ditto Michael Feldman.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Jun 6 2007, 06:40 PM) [snapback]456896[/snapback]</div>

Yes, of course I know people on welfare. I'm glad it was there for them. But it's a temporary fix, not a way of life. The same kids who don't understand about sex don't understand that there is no future on welfare, nor do they understand that it will not be enough.

And I've also had people try to sell me food stamps in the grocery store (to which I replied, "No thank you. I already paid for them."

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Jun 6 2007, 06:40 PM) [snapback]456896[/snapback]</div>

I agree. But that won't solve the problem.

For example, one of my children goes to school with a boy who boasts that he has fathered three children. He knows how it happened. It takes more than knowledge.

Ignorance is not why we have the highest teen pregnancy rate in the developed world. Acceptance is.

By the way, my church offers seminars for parents on teaching your children about sex. They suggest that you tell them the basics (intercourse, conception, birth) at AGE FIVE and then add more details as teachable moments arise. (I am so glad we followed their advice -- introducing the topic of sex is easier with a five-year-old than a 15-year-old.) Sex was not taught as dirty, but as special, even sacred. Which it is.

Next time you are in the grocery store, pick up a girl's teen magazine while you are standing in line. I recently looked at a whole bunch of them and was completely shocked at the emphasis on teenage sex. Here these people (the editors) have an opportunity to influence girls and rather than help them decide if they are ready for sex and understand the consequences, they are all about how to turn on boys.

Somebody, please, start a new magazine for teenage girls!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(formerVWdriver @ Jun 6 2007, 03:30 PM) [snapback]456742[/snapback]</div>

I don't think any intelligent thinking person would be offended that you hold these beliefs you put forth in your post. It is when religious beliefs are touted as undeniable facts that should be taught in our schools along side impirical scientific evidence that people will begin to put up a fight.

I find it strange that your attitude towards NPR seems to be the same attitude that offends you so much when it is turned towards your faith.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(formerVWdriver @ Jun 6 2007, 07:10 PM) [snapback]456912[/snapback]</div>

funny. my PI leads a pharmacology discussion group for a pre-med college class. last week she led a discussion on contraceptives, and ended up fielding so many questions on birth control options that the group ran nearly an hour late. she said half the class knew their stuff and the other half was absolutely clueless. :blink:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adammc @ Jun 6 2007, 07:25 PM) [snapback]456923[/snapback]</div>

My parenthetical statement was supposed to be a joke! I need to learn how to stick in the smiley faces.

But I'm also intrigued by your comment. One person's beliefs about his/her faith are surely of more significance than another person's belief about a radio network. Surely we are talking apples and oranges here.

Or is NPR a new religion?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(formerVWdriver @ Jun 6 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]456941[/snapback]</div>

It is your opinion that your religious faith is more significant. My point was that people are people, and if you have an expectation that your beliefs deserve some kind of reverence don't you think others do as well; however insignificant you think they may be.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adammc @ Jun 6 2007, 08:18 PM) [snapback]456967[/snapback]</div>

If you are crying because your parakeet died and I'm crying because my spouse was murdered, I think my crying is more significant.

Religion does not equal a radio station.

However, people's opinions deserve respect, so I will agree with you on that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(formerVWdriver @ Jun 6 2007, 08:20 PM) [snapback]456969[/snapback]</div>

Again with the unfair analogies.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(formerVWdriver @ Jun 6 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]456941[/snapback]</div>

Wow, and I thought I was a liberal! I agree with you on almost every point, but with a few asterix's... (axteri?)

Lower taxes should come through decreased defense spending, and not roll back our system of progressive taxation. (Taxing the wealthy at a higher percentage)

Secure borders are good, but some kind of honest, reasonable system needs to be in place for legal immigration, and current illegal immigrants should be processed compasionately.

Strong defense is a tangled web. The key word here is defense. Pre-emptive war based on lies and questionable motives is inexcusable, and in my view an impeachable offense. We spend insane ammounts of money on unneeded weapons (oversized nuclear arsenal, non-functional misile defense systems) and operations (Iraq comes to mind). We need to crack down on corruption (think halliburton) and have some kind of check on insane skunkworks expenses. We don't need the F22, we need textbooks in schools, reasonable salaries for teachers, and a strong university system.

While we are at it I beleive that the most wealthy nation in the world should have a safety net in the health care system other than county emergency rooms. It's morraly bankrupt not to.

Speaking of morality, and since you have been serving as a voice of this nation's christian majority, isn't it immoral to deface God's greatest gift to us, the planet. Our wanton disregard for this earth is grossly immoral in my view, and I feel that the Christian Right's inaction on this topic is inexcusable. Your thoughts?

PS: I love America as much as the next Flagophile, but blueberry pie is way better than apple. ;-)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Greenkeeper @ Jun 6 2007, 08:24 PM) [snapback]456973[/snapback]</div>

I hope this doesn't mean I'm a liberal!

We part company on defense and Iraq, but I'm with you on secure borders and compassionate treatment of illegals.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Greenkeeper @ Jun 6 2007, 08:24 PM) [snapback]456973[/snapback]</div>

That's a problem morally as well as financially. It's poor treatment of people and a bad use of resources. The problem should be solved from two directions: keeping people well so they need less medical care (I think this is called "wellness") and finding an alternative to the ER for non-emergencies. But I don't know the answer.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Greenkeeper @ Jun 6 2007, 08:24 PM) [snapback]456973[/snapback]</div>

If I am the voice of America's Christians we are in Big Trouble.

But, now that I have all that power, I will answer.
Yes, of course we are to be good stewards of the planet. We were given dominion and all that, which means take care of it.

America's Christians are addressing it, but I'll agree it's rather far down the list. I hope that it's because they are throwing their money, time and talents to helping hurting people.

My own minister is also a master gardener and puts a lot of emphasis on green issues. The children's Sunday schools have compost piles going (complete with biting worms). Every week the bulletin has information on how you can help the earth through things such as buying in bulk so there's less packaging, recycling opportunities, how to make your yard a wildlife habitat, etc. They collect things like computers and phone books for recycling on a regular basis -- as well as sending people to Mississippi to help rebuild after the hurricane and sending stuff to our soldiers in Iraq. And the church has recently dedicated a wildlife habitat. Big emphasis on using less resources in general, too. I don't know. Maybe we are an anomaly. But I don't think Christians are anti-earth; they're just pulled in other directions.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Greenkeeper @ Jun 6 2007, 08:24 PM) [snapback]456973[/snapback]</div>

Truth is, nothing beats chocolate.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jun 6 2007, 07:38 PM) [snapback]456930[/snapback]</div>

I guess they've been studying too hard to have a need to know......?
Scary!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(formerVWdriver @ Jun 6 2007, 05:20 PM) [snapback]456969[/snapback]</div>

Nada, negativo, nope, absolutely not.

PEOPLE deserve respect (at least until they prove they don't, usually by consistently refusing themselves to respect other people).

But opinions, no. Opinions should be regularly and thoroughly thrashed, stomped, dissected and debated, even ones that seem to have withstood the ages, like the once popular and age old opinion that slavery was meritorious, or that women shouldn't vote. Give an opinion respect solely because you think opinions "deserve" respect and you waive all claim to critical thought.

And is there any difference between opinion and belief? Only that belief is perhaps a somewhat more deeply entrenched opinion. But it's still only opinion.

You the individual I respect out of hand. But not necessarily what you believe.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA