Doctors, Doctors, Doctors

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Tom6850, Jul 4, 2007.

  1. Tom6850

    Tom6850 Retired

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    In the UK six foreign doctors arrested for terrorist activities is unbelivable. Two of the most trusted and respected occupations are the Clergy and Physicians. In the last few years the Clergy has taken a real hit, now the Physicians are getting into the act. These are the people you trust with your and your families health and lives, people who we look up to. Granted they are foreign Doctors but I believe they all take the same oath to save lives not take them. From what the news is telling us is that they are part of a "sleeper cell" operating in the UK. If there are "sleeper cells" operating in the UK I am sure we have them here in the US as well. It really concerns me that someone who has gone to school as long as they have and the education they have received can still be so fanatical. We have gone to some foreign specialist Doctors and trust them totally, but it starts to make you wonder.
     
  2. Hobbs

    Hobbs New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom 6850 @ Jul 4 2007, 10:53 AM) [snapback]472835[/snapback]</div>
    For England read UK! You Canadians never get it right! ;)

    Normally Scotland is avoided by terrorists. Sad that it should happen but nowhere is safe!
     
  3. Tom6850

    Tom6850 Retired

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hobbs @ Jul 4 2007, 08:50 AM) [snapback]472846[/snapback]</div>
    Correction noted and changed. By the way I am not Canadian, but American, USA.

    Fourth of July today, celebrating our independence from the UK. :)
     
  4. pyccku

    pyccku Happy Prius Driver

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    Why do they avoid Scotland? Is it an aversion to haggis, or are there just not very many good targets for the terrorists?
     
  5. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hobbs @ 2007 July 4 5:50 AM) [snapback]472846[/snapback]</div>
    Is it my imagination, or is it the British who insist on the 'United' part, not so much the Welsh, Irish, and Scottish? Yes, I'm Canadian. And cheeky. :)
     
  6. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pyccku @ Jul 4 2007, 06:48 AM) [snapback]472856[/snapback]</div>
    I think if you knew what went into haggis, you would avoid practicing terrorism in Scotland, too. If you were caught, they might feed it to you in jail. Committing suicide in order to get to heaven and get 23 (?) virgins is one thing, but spending the rest of your life in jail eating haggis is quite another.

    Seriously, though, why would anybody believe that any profession is superior to the rest of humanity? Why would a cleric or a doctor or a cop be more honest or upright than a bricklayer or an accountant or a factory worker?

    Maybe it's because we put our lives in the hands of our doctor that we have to trust him for our own peace of mind, so when any doctor anywhere does something bad, we find it especially shocking. But if you realize that "terrorists" believe as sincerely as soldiers do that they are fighting for some noble cause, then maybe it's not so surprising if people from "noble" professions can become terrorists. A doctor is just a person who went to medical school and passed the requisite exams. An auto mechanic to the human body. Standing up and taking the Hippocratic oath does not change whatever that person was or believed in before enrolling in medical school. We have examples right here on Prius Chat of doctors who are fine upstanding people, and at least one apparent doctor with no scruples whatsoever, who has repeatedly displayed such venom and such contempt for people who do not share his world view, that were he not a complete coward he'd probably become a terrorist himself.
     
  7. pyccku

    pyccku Happy Prius Driver

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    I agree that people do need to feel that they can trust their doctors. But I think it is also that people like to think that doctors with a propensity for evil would be somehow screened out - you like to think that anyone who could be so willing to hurt others and so untrustworthy would be unable to get into medical school, or through an internship or a residency - that somewhere along the way, someone would notice this sort of thing, and stop the process of that person becoming a doctor.

    The idea of well-educated people becoming terrorists becomes twice as horrifying if those people are doctors - because who would know better how to inflict the most damage to the human body?

    It bothers me to think that a person whose entire profession is devoted to helping others who are suffering could instead turn completely in the other direction - cause as much suffering as possible, all in the name of an unprovable god.
     
  8. formerVWdriver

    formerVWdriver New Member

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    Doctors who are terrorists is frightening on several levels. One is that it intrudes on our comfortable, "safe" view of terrorists as oppressed, uneducated people who are driven to do anything. It challenges our thinking. It's inconvenient. It means that our enemy is not whom we thought.

    Perhaps these people really do hate us and want to kill us. Perhaps we should worry about them and not spend all our energies hating Bush and other Americans.

    Perhaps there are terrorists in our midst, preparing to surprise us close to home. Perhaps someone should be on the lookout for them.

    The other is that we hope that doctors are devoted to life, not worshipers of death.

    And that brings us back to the OP. Whom can you trust?

    The night before one battle George Washington commanded that no one be put on watch duty who was not born in this land.

    That is not P.C. Good thing George W. only had to worry about the good of the country and doing what makes sense.

    Before I get accused of all kinds of things, please note that my family pediatrician is from Lebanon and we are not planning on switching. (He is also Catholic, which we are not.)
     
  9. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jul 4 2007, 09:49 AM) [snapback]472871[/snapback]</div>
    These weren't the first terrorist doctors, they won't be the last.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Goldstein
     
  10. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    They could have done a lot more damage.The chemical used to sterilize medical instruments is the gas used in the fuel/air bomb(the bomb used in desert storm to decimate Iraq's retreating soldiers).It would be devastating if a terrorist got access to it.
     
  11. Hobbs

    Hobbs New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom 6850 @ Jul 4 2007, 10:53 AM) [snapback]472835[/snapback]</div>
    You must have missed this bit of news.


    http://www.murderuk.com/serial_dr_harold_shipman.html
    Kill Total - 215+ - Jailed for killing 15.

    (It is claimed that the total was 250+)

    Click here for a complete list of all 215 victims.

    Family GP Harold Shipman had become the focus of Europe's biggest ever murder investigation: he is suspected of killing more than 116 patients over 14 years. Dr. Death -- as he is known by British media -- was linked to 77 killings after police subsequently charged him with six murders and started investigating other suspicious deaths surrounding his medical practice.
     
  12. Jack Kelly

    Jack Kelly New Member

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    Yesterday's paper carried a blip about a 60-year-old doc in N CA who videorecorded vaginal exams he performed on 15- and 16-year-old girls, from both up close and a longer distance. He used a small cam attached to his exam coat near a pocket, and a stationary cam wounted near an air vent. He also used the latter to record instances of his nurse performing pelvic and breast exams on teenaged girls.

    Here's a guy who apparently has thought of his female victims, probably since med school, as sexual meat. Apparently he's gotten away with whatever else he's done.

    An "isolated instance"? Nope, happens every day.

    Wonder where the video ends up?
     
  13. Hobbs

    Hobbs New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pyccku @ Jul 4 2007, 01:48 PM) [snapback]472856[/snapback]</div>
    They avoid Scotland because terrorists see us as a nation trying to gain independence.

    There is a Scottish government now, entering its third term. The Scottish government has control of many aspects, the rest being controlled by British government at Westminster. For the first time the Scottish election returned a minority government. One of their stated aims is for an independent Scotland.

    Interestingly the First minister of the Scottish government is also an MP in the British Parliament. (following me so far?)

    To confuse matters further the new British prime minister (Tony Blair’s replacement) is Scottish and has his constituency in Scotland but isn’t a member of the Scottish Parliament.

    Glasgow airport was probably targeted because of the new prime ministers Scottish connections and because he would often use that airport.
     
  14. Hobbs

    Hobbs New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Jul 4 2007, 02:35 PM) [snapback]472867[/snapback]</div>
    Yeah you are Canadian but so is the guy from Pennsylvania ;)

    The UK, Britain, Great Britain and The British Isles all mean different things. I looked it up once but have long since forgotten. The UK stands for "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland." I think. Quite why BC is called BC is another story entirely I suspect. Vancouver is a nice town.

    I am proud to be Scottish, British and European.

    (By the way, I do know where Pennsylvania is.)
     
  15. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hobbs @ Jul 4 2007, 01:22 PM) [snapback]473075[/snapback]</div>
    I'm sure you are right, but the haggis explanation is more lyrical.

    BTW, I visited Scotland once. I joined a group and we hiked most of the West Highland Way (skipping the part that just follows a railway). We had "liquid sunshine" for most of that time and the inns we stayed at never had adequate space in their drying rooms. But the country was beautiful, and I liked the people, even though I could not understand a word spoken by any resident of Glasgow. (I had no trouble at all in Edinburgh.) On the last day we got clear skies and warm temperatures for our ascent of Ben Nevis. At about 4,150 feet of elevation gain it was one of the two or three greatest elevation gains I have hiked. At a totally uneducated guess, I'd say a thousand people climbed it that day, from little kids to old ladies. It was very much a picnic atmosphere, and beautiful, all the slopes covered with blooming heather. Because of the unexpected warm weather and the intensity of the hike, I discovered halfway up that I was not carrying enough water. So, following the example of our guide (but ignoring his advice, which was opposite his example) I drank from the stream which crosses the trail half-way up. It was the best-tasting water I had ever drunk. (A year or two later I tasted its equal, on a mountain in British Columbia. Glacial melt water, white with pulverized rock.) Fifteen minutes after we left the summit it clouded over, but we had a beautiful view while we were up there.

    Me on Ben Nevis:
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  16. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom 6850 @ Jul 4 2007, 06:53 AM) [snapback]472835[/snapback]</div>
    The use of physicians as terrorists by islamofascists is a very smart idea. A number of western countries are short physicians, especially if certain localities and specialties. It is easy to make up this gap by importing them . The amount of scutiny they undergo is less than others with different professions.

    There is no doubt that there are more of these sleeper cells there and here. Good luck finding them.

    Interesting points that came up during last weeks roll up of these terror cells:

    1. GB security systems - surveillence systems are able to identify a cars tags - they type the plate into the computer and the system will find the car as long as the plate is visible - and can track it.

    2. obviously they were tapping the phone(s) of some of these guys or had immediate access to their phone records. the cell phone that were supposed to detonate the car fuel bombs did not go off and they rolled up that data real quick. i wonder if they had a mirror image of fisa to deal with.

    3. their new prime minister just put into place a bunch of new laws that would make most liberals here have a terminal case of diarrhea - and it seems as though the citizens there are not complaining.

    4. seems to be that one bomb maker was responsible for all the devices - and the methods are traceable back to iraq -- seems like the bad guys are not waiting for our Democrats/Liberals here to withdraw our troops from iraq before they follow us home -- take note --- they are already coming at us. we might want to reconsider redeploying our troops to okinawa or somewhere else at this point in time.
     
  17. Tom6850

    Tom6850 Retired

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  18. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jul 5 2007, 06:59 AM) [snapback]473396[/snapback]</div>
    I have no doubt that you would wriggle in glee to have all physicians of middle east descent in the US monitored 24/7, including your anesthesiologist colleague(though you'd never say it to his face). After all interring all the Japanese during WWII surely stopped another pearl harbor. You believe that, don't you? And please, don't even try to retort with some retarded comment about how I would be very happy to have another terrorist attack occur on US soil. Nothing could be further from the truth. I just prefer my home country not to be a police state.
     
  19. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hobbs @ Jul 4 2007, 04:42 PM) [snapback]473087[/snapback]</div>
    "What happened to the British Empire? Now you want to call it the UK.

    You do have great military bands."

    That is cruel but also true. I admire GB for being one of our best and reliable allies - even though they now think there is no war on terror :( I just wonder what they are going to call those guys [ or ideology] that keeps either trying to kill/murder them or succeeds in killing them?

    Back to the British Empire:

    It is a shame what has become of the once mighty Brits - they are going to mothball about 50% of their navy now - and when complete will be unable to even protect their own shores much less project power. If I were Argentina, I would wait a few more years and then go back into the Falklands.

    Part of it is our fault - we continue to provide national defense for the Brits (and other european countries) allowing them to forgo what should be their own desire to remain strong. This is in part essential for the Brits - that they now reallocate scarce pounds/dollars to their national health care system which is a money pit - and for which they get substandard returns on their investment.

    I hope that the Brits wake up and at the least shore up their army and airforce and special forces. It is essential for them to be strong in this battle on "terror" or whatever they are calling it in GB today.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jul 5 2007, 09:53 AM) [snapback]473418[/snapback]</div>
    First - my anesthesiologist wants to be profiled and is mortified at the islamoterrorists that give Islam a bad name.

    Second - I understand what happened during WWII including FDR's trampling of the US Constitution - he was able to do it - he was also lacking the technology we have today that we do not let the President use to protect us. We are also dealing with the potential of WMD's today that they did not have back then. FDR realized that during times of crisis - of war - of people trying to kill americans - the US constitution should not be and was not designed to be a suicide pact --- you try to wrap your mind around that concept.

    Police state or not -- name one constitutional right you are without today........

    And what is the primary directive of the POTUS?

    The only difference amongst us is the degree to which we want to allow our govt to go to protect us. i err on the side of caution - i figure 3,000 dead american civilians is enough.... what is your number???
     
  20. Tom6850

    Tom6850 Retired

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