Does Fuel Induction service clean the EGR Valves?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Pijoto, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Sounds like you’re promoting “run to failure” rather than preventative maintenance. All in the name of data:cool:.

    My issue with that approach is :
    • how repeatable is each scenario?
    • How comparable is each scenario?
    • What’s the definition of “well maintained”?
    • Is “by the book” maintenance the best method, even though you go off schedule for certain things (like trans fluid)?
    • If ok to do that for one thing, why not another?
    • And what makes this different than the trans fluid?
    So many questions, yet there will always be different answers and different scenarios. No two will be alike, even with my coworker and I. He followed the book maintenance and at 230k miles, a new head gasket is what he got. You have your own examples of higher mileage non failures. So what’s the right interval:whistle:?

    What I know from dealing with sensitive things is consistency. If I can provide a sensitive situation the same air flow or the same coolant flow and ensure the coolant has all it needs to protect, I’ll do that. If I can clean a system to ensure consistent air flow, I will.

    Hope that helps(y).
     
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  2. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    I totally agree!

    But then you can spend hundreds of hours regularly cleaning the EGR system on a fleet of Gen 3's....
    But you can't guarantee none of them will ever have a head gasket failure once they get up into the +250k mile ranges.

    Without data it's all just opinions.

    To each his own. (y)

    I feel better now realizing the system does have a sort of feedback system for the EGR system by monitoring the expected intake manifold pressures using the MAP in comparison to the MAF.
     
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    Bill, once upon a time you conceded checking the EGR pipe would be worthwhile, were going to do it? Or is that just a wishful memory on my part?
     
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  4. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    How does the system monitor the individual EGR channel for each of the cylinders? It's been reported multiple times that one or more cylinder(s) will be completely blocked from EGR and the other cylinders having open channels. What do you think happens to cylinder temperatures and pressures in this scenario? Could this warp a cylinder head?

    Pixel XL ?
     
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  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    @mjoo IIRC did some flow tests, running water through a cooler, pre and post cleaning. There was a 75% reduction in flow with the pre-cleaned cooler? And this was taken off a car displaying no codes?

    @Bill Norton will be along shortly, to postulate that Toyota engineers maybe anticipated that flow reduction, over designed the system, and so on.

    Flogging the horse...
     
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  6. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    That's correct. This was at 70k miles. I got sprayed pretty good from the pressure.

    Pixel XL ?
     
    #46 mjoo, Jan 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
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  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    Good data.
     
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  8. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    I'm going to break with tradition here and just answer the question first....
    Does Fuel Induction service clean the EGR Valves?
    Nope.
    Just your wallet....

    Right about now is where I give my usual 30-minute sermon about what a maintenance guide does for you and the difference between "maintenance" and "repair" but I'm thinking that the folks behind me will start pelting me with choir books - and this is a very interesting question BECAUSE.....I'm guessing that EGR cleaning isn't covered by the warranty and maintenance guide for your vehicle.
    Also...remember the PURPOSE of the warranty and maintenance guide (preventing the CAR COMPANY from paying warranty claims) and who the owners manual is meant to PROTECT (the company.)

    The reason that there are probably dozens and dozens of WARNINGs, CAUTIONs and Notes in the OM and only one very small mention of checking your oil level every 30 days or 1,000 miles is NOT because Toyota cares about preventing you from being killed, injured, or breaking your car......but rather Toyota's lawyers MADE them put all of those WARNINGs, CAUTIONs and Notes in the OM so that they would not have to pay YOUR lawyers or pay a dealership to fix your car if you do something contrary to "common sense" .....which.....isn't.

    So...
    You have a 6 year old car, and you probably drive about 20K a year.
    You've been a forum member for about 4 years, you have a couple hundred posts to your credit and you really don't like to DIY your maintenance, and despite the fact that you HAVE been a member here for as long as you have you still voluntarily take your car back to a dealership.

    If all of this is true, I would recommend:

    #1.)
    Fire your delaership and find a decent local independent mechanic.
    In DALLAS????
    It's not going to be that hard.
    Just look for a shop with about a 6-week backlog.

    #2.)
    Read 10 posts about the transaxle flushing and consider having this done for your car - if it hasn't already been done.
    I know.
    It isn't in the maintenance guide (I know this cause I read it once! ;) )
    However (comma!) it's a good thing to consider.

    #3.)
    If you get this far, repeat #2 above for your EGR.
    ONCE AGAIN..... @NutzAboutBolts is out on the sharp end of the stick for this service!
    and they have a video....

    Prius EGR - Bing video

    This will be more important than the transaxle service, but steps #1 and #2 are confidence builders.
    If you haven't done or won't do them, then the rest of this post doesn't really matter, does it?

    #4.)
    AFTER (or IF) you've done 1,2,and 3....then you can read the maintenance schedule from a more informed perspective and determine IF you want to perform the 120,000 maintenance items and how.
    You will know if your car is secretly drinking and smoking behind your back.....
    You will know by then whether you can trust your new mechanic to do the 120,000 mile checks....and ONLY those checks.


    ....you already KNOW these things about your dealer mechanic! ;)

    Good Luck!
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    If I may append, a little more flogging, and I know it's repetive:

    #4.) Clean the intake manifold and install Oil Catch Can on the PCV hose.

    Couple of reasons:

    1. The intake manifold is the last leg of the EGR circuit. The exhaust gases come through the cooler, the valve, the pipe, into a chamber in the intake manifold, and down narrow diameter tributaries, to each intake port. And they clog. And burble all over the intake ports.

    2. The PCV circuit imports copious amounts of airborne oil/water/gas into the intake. The MAP sensor is pretty much swimming in it. And maybe the stuff that doesn't hang around in the intake manifold is (at least in part) the combusted remnants, in the EGR circuit.
     
  10. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    Excellent......ah......."catch".
    ;)
     
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  11. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    OK, I'll get on this any day now,, or month or year... And I will find crud in this short 90° bend pipe.

    This is a very good point! I totally agree this situation can't be good.
    How often is a typical Prius owner supposed to take off and throughly clean the EGR cooler, valve, pipe and Intake Manifold?
    Is this a common affliction that all cars with an EGR system have ?

    75%? This is with a garden hose? In the driveway? science !

    Correcto Mundo (y)
    I suspect ALL car manufacturers plan on crud build up in the poop pipes.o_O It the nature of the beast...:sick:
    That is my Saucerful of Secrets, buddy !!!!:D
     
  12. Pijoto

    Pijoto Active Member

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    What, the EGR Valve and Cooler are two seperate things? o_O I think the EGR system and Head Gasket is covered under the Gold extended warranty I bought for my used 2013 Prius up to around 143K Miles (bought it at 93K Miles), so I'll check the brochure when I get home from work.
     
  13. Lightning Racer

    Lightning Racer Active Member

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    @Mendel Leisk will be along shortly with the drawing of the EGR system :).
     
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  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    upload_2019-1-3_12-30-36.png
    Cooler yellow, valve green, pipe sorta salmon. Beyond that: the intake manifold passages.
     
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  15. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    What's the verdict?
     
  16. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    Here is something I have never seen mentioned, how do cars do in a pollution test? The main reason for EGR is to reduce pollution. It would seem that if plugged they would fail pollution inspection.
     
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  17. egn83b

    egn83b Junior Member

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    The easy way out of cleaning the top end without going to extremes is try my method. First run the car down to 1/4 tank of gas then dump in a full can of sea foam from the parts store or wally world. Drive tell you get the flashing empty light. Fill up you will notice the prius will run like new again because the seafoam will lube the top end and clean up the carbon and free up the egr of buildup. Maybe change your oil a few miles after doing this to rid any excess carbon in the oil after the treatment. Best of luck. My prius dont burn oil. Mine only gets random engine knock in exteremely humidity and cold. No coolant loss issues.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  18. egn83b

    egn83b Junior Member

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  19. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    I don't know man, mine runs like new all the time. Maybe I'm not sensitive enough to feel these claims...(n)
    "Free up egr buildup" is a big claim without before/after proof?
    "Engine Knock" ???? That is seriously BAD. You should find a way to keep that from happening.
    Is it after just short trips in those conditions?
     
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