Does the gen 3 prius have ceramic brake pads stock?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by ThatDudeOrion, Apr 17, 2017.

  1. ThatDudeOrion

    ThatDudeOrion Member

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    Hello,
    I drive a lot and am looking to decrease the amount of brake dust I see accumulating on my wheels. I know a fairly easy fix is to replace the pads with ceramics, but I know that with roughly 40k miles, I won't actually NEED to replace the pads for quite some time. In my research I saw a couple folks mention that the Gen 3 Prius had ceramic pads from the factory, so that would make it doubly wasteful if I already have ceramic pads on my 2011 and I just replaced them with newer ceramic pads and probably not see a reduction in the dust buildup.

    I'm hoping someone can definitively say if a 2011 Prius II should have had ceramic pads when it shipped from the factory.
     
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    Whatever's on there, it's the cleanest I've ever seen front wheels. I would just go with stock.
     
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  3. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

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    If you drive with the "Hybrid System Display" (shown below), when you brake, try to brake gently and stay within the left-most part of the display, with a small part still dark. This is all regenerative braking, which increases your fuel economy and uses no brake pads to slow your car.

    Don't overdo it, of course... you need to watch the road when you brake. But after a while, you'll learn how much brake pressure to apply to stay in the window, except under emergency, and your brake pads will last to 200,000 miles or more, and your wheels won't get dirty, and your fuel economy will improve.

    IMG_7231.JPG
     
  4. ThatDudeOrion

    ThatDudeOrion Member

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    Thank you for the insight. I 100% agree with the idea of trying to maximize regen braking and I do indeed drive with the HSD on, and my tablet with Torque and the custom PIDs, etc. and I am always trying to go for max FE, well, max FE dealing with real world conditions as a commuter on the Interstates in the Northeast US. I try to use the brake pads as little as possible and consider myself to be pretty easy on brakes with or without regen. Which is why I'm somewhat surprised at the amount of pad dust that's building up on my wheels. I drive about 1k miles per week or so, and I wash the car every 2-3 weeks and each time there is a noticeable amount on the wheels that seems to return fairly quickly.

    I suppose it's possible that these are non-factory pads because I haven't owned the car for it's whole life, but I bought it with about 19k miles on it and it was serviced at Toyota dealer and I have most if not all service records, so I would be highly surprised if the oem pads had been replaced with some dusty semi-metallic pads at some point prior to me getting it.

    Swapping pads is a pretty easy task and not very expensive in the long run, which is why I had considered it, but I'm less gung-ho about it now. Though I guess what I need to be looking for is a pad formulation that offers even less dust than oem ceramic pads, in order to make it worth the time/effort/cost to swap the pads out prematurely.
     
  5. NutzAboutBolts

    NutzAboutBolts Senior Member

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    Most new cars uses ceramics, Toyota Prius uses ceramics.
     
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  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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  7. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

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    50K miles a year? Man, that's a lot!
    What I recommend:
    1) Lube the brake pins as shown in the NutzAboutBolts video
    2) Replace the transaxle fluid at 30K, 90K, and 150K miles
    3) Change the engine oil and filter at 5K intervals or as best you can. You don't need to use 10K intervals. Use Mobil 1 or another premium synthetic.

    The other maintenance tasks are pretty rarely done and none of them are difficult. It's a very easy car to work on, especially now that NutzAboutBolts made those awesome videos.
     
  8. ThatDudeOrion

    ThatDudeOrion Member

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    These are great tips!, but I'm curious if you meant 15k mile OCI? I have a 10k sample and a 13k sample that I need to send off for UOA.

    I already changed the transaxle fluid right before or right as it hit 30k and took a sample of that to be analyzed as well

    but I have not yet lubed the brake pins and I think I really should jump on that this weekend, thank you!

     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    With the brakes, read up
    I can't speak for @Rebound , but I'd suspect he does mean 5000 mile. The US schedule is 10,000 miles (or yearly whichever comes first), but the interval varies 'round the world. In Canada it's 8000 km (5000 miles) or 6 months. In Australia it's somewhere in between I think? Second gen US Prius has the 5000 mile or 6 month interval. In Canada, 4th gen Prius has apparently adopted the US 10,000 mile or yearly interval.

    I seriously doubt the engineering of the car has changed that much, to warrant doubling of oil change intervals; this seems to be near-pure salesmanship at work. Depends on your situation, and to be fair: high usage, steady driving is easier on an engine, compared to low usage, a lot of cold-starts and short trips. But if you want to play it real safe: 5000 miles or 6 months is the way to go, regardless of the "official" oil change interval.

    Read up, get organized, before you jump in. A few gotchas I can think of:

    1. Whenever the caliper is off the rotor and the car has 12 volt power, there's a possibility the system could activate (guaranteed to happen if the driver's door is opened). While somewhat draconian, the safest approach is to disconnect the 12 volt negative cable before starting.

    Isolate the negative cable clamp by stuffing it into a heavy glove. Lay the other glove across the hatch latch on the threshold, to prevent the hatch locking closed: the mechanism is electrical, and if it locks without power it turns into a real hassle opening the hatch.

    2. When reinstalling the rear brake caliper, make sure the "spoke" pattern on the piston face is oriented like an "x", not like a "cross". There is a pin on on the back of the inner brake pad, that is mean to fall between the spokes in the pattern, to prevent the piston from rotating when parking brake is applied.

    You want to ensure that pin is in between the spokes, and stays there, is well seated/bedded in position. So, make sure of that, then follow gotcha #3, before applying parking brake.

    3. After brakes are assembled, and before applying parking brake or reconnecting the 12 volt negative cable, do multiple depressions of the brake pedal. You want to ensure there is no play or excess travel, that caliper pistons are full bedded/seated.

    4. Use the right lubes. For caliper pins use a silicon-type lube, and for brake pad and caliper faying surfaces (points of contact between pad backs, shims and caliper/piston) use an anti-seize compound.

    Toyota sells a silicon grease, I believe it's called "rubber grease"? Check with dealership service department, make sure to get the right stuff.

    Personally for the pins I use Sil-Glyde Brake Lubricant, and for brake/caliper faying surfaces I use Permatex Anti-Seize Compound (sparingly). Both are readily availiable commercially.

    I've attached the brake section for Repair Manual. One thing, it recommends to restrain the caliper pin with a 17 mm wrench while loosening the (14 mm bolt) that screws into it. I've been doing that, found a sllim 17 mm wrench that fits, but it's a handful, makes it awkward wrenching loose (or tightening) the bolt, one-handed.

    I've never found the need to do that with a lot of previous Honda's, and I don't think it's really that necessary. @NutzAboutBolts doesn't do it in his video, get's on just fine.
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

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    Yes, I mean to suggest 5K oil change intervals, or close to it (6K, 7K if you're busy).

    I have to use the two wrenches to loosen the sliding pins. I happen to have a really cheapo wrench that fits; a Craftsman wrench is too thick but the cheapo wrench works.
     
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  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    Yeah, same here. A cheapo 17 mm wrench that is thin enough. But I'm using a ratcheting socket to loosen, and torque wrench when tightening, and both of those are much more stable if you wrench with one hand, and steady the socket with the other. I got my wife involved this last time: she held the 17 mm while I torqued the bolts.

    I guess a crow-foot torque wrench extension might help, I do not know.
     
  12. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

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    I don't bother with a torque wrench for brake bolts, but if you use a crow-foot extension, you need to factor its added length into your torque wrench setting by dropping two or three ft-lbs from the setting on your wrench.
     
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  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    Yeah I recall something about that, you've made the lever arm longer. Meh: my wife works cheap.

    Also, even without that extra wrench, it seemed very solid, right up to torque value.

    Unless they're peanuts 10 mm (socket size) bolts, if I've got a torque value and can get the torque wrench on it, I use it. I suspect when you wing it you'll over torque, as often as not.
     
  14. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    we had this discussion 4 years ago with no clear answers: Ceramic brake pads? | PriusChat


    IMG_20170429_121844649.jpg IMG_20170429_121821318.jpg


    See my OEM pad. It's Advics PV565H-FG. If anyone is able to figure it out based on the number, be my guest. However, based on the friction surface, they look semimetalic to me (metalic flakes, some yellowish, but didn't show up well in the picture).
     
    #14 Former Member 68813, Apr 29, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  15. capolihu

    capolihu Member

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    Hey, I'm about to replace the pads and the rotors but I'm kind of stuck. The pads I got are Duralast Gold, which should fit, except they don't have the tiny holes for the two pins that loose them away of the rotor, secondly, they are pretty tight. I can slide the pads in, mostly but, the not very loose, they almost stuck that place. Is that normal?
    If it is perpendicular to the caliper, it gets stuck at the closest point to the rotor, if I change the angle a little bit they can wiggle a bit more View attachment 177004 View attachment 177005 20190824_094040_HDR.jpeg

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    Return them and buy stock Toyota parts?

    Barring that, drill holes for the springs, and take a bit off the ends with an angle grinder. Were they even cheaper?

    Were the rotors really in need of replacement?

    Are these fronts or rears btw.

    This doesn't look good:

    upload_2019-8-24_9-26-45.png
     

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    #16 Mendel Leisk, Aug 24, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
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  17. capolihu

    capolihu Member

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    Rear.
    Yeah, I returned them back :/ and bought genuine from Toyota. They are +30 bucks, but look better finished. Will try them again later.
    Rotors, yes, I was thinking to replace or not, probably would have not needed, but they had some shoulders already and I don't have tools to make them even, so I just replaced them for $50 each. If I didn't, I was afraid they will sound bad and wear uneven again..

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    I'm a dog-with-a-bone on this, but watch the rear caliper piston orientation when reassembling. The face has a raised cross-pattern, which should be oriented like an "X" when assembled. Pump the brake lots before reconnecting* the 12 volt, get the brakes well seated. Maybe take for a test drive, and only after that apply/release the parking brake a few times, then raise the rear and verify the wheels are spinning semi-free (at least a couple of revolutions with a good push).

    If they're really dragging it's likely the piston rotated, something you need to fix. There's a pin on the back of the inside pad, that should be locked between the spokes, to prevent the piston turning. It's important to start with the right piston orientation, and that it be well seated thus.

    * disconnect the battery neg cable before pulling off calipers, just in case...
     
    #18 Mendel Leisk, Aug 24, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
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  19. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    You sure it’s not a “dog without a bone”;).

    That’s how I’ve always heard it as the dog will be motivated:).

    But good advice(y).
     
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  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    Red flag to a bull?
     
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