Does Toyota See the Future?

yes and no

they see the future in their r&d labs, and are preparing for it.

however, no one knows when that future will come, so in the meantime, they garner the carb credits they need, could care less about prius sales, and are making humongous profits off of their land barges like everyone else

 

there'll be no major changes to prime. maybe a fifth seat. maybe

 

I've commented on it before, but I believe reports of the Prius and/or Hybrids demise grossly exaggerated.

Tesla? Is a different product. It perhaps translates into some minuscule percentage of buyers that buy a Tesla that would of otherwise bought a Prius or Prius Prime. But I have to believe that isn't really very significant. Tesla is not a cheap product, a lot of the posts I read from Tesla owners/buyers, are people that own both a Tesla and a Prius.
In regards to Prius sales being down? I think it has much more to do with normal cycles. Much more to do with relatively low and stable gas prices.
With Ford and GM, downsizing even curtailing their sales of many sedans and hatchbacks in North America, one could argue, all vehicles that are NOT SUV's or Trucks are struggling right now, not just the Prius.

Tesla may of stolen the Eco/Green or "Cool" alternative automobile panache once enjoyed by Prius but Prius really hasn't enjoyed that in a long, long time.
Prius is mainstream, and recognizable, that's due to success, not failure.

I suspect, a spike in gas prices, which is also simply inevitable evolution would/will reawaken a lot of peoples interest in Prius and Hybrids.
I think improvement in the product itself including all wheel drive, will also keep the Hybrid alive.

My personal opinion is, Toyota broke the "gas" ceiling with the 50 mpg mark with Prius. I think what would reawaken a lot of interest would be pushing that level of efficiency even higher.

 

You're obsession is such a wasted effort. Prime is morphing into a more than just an "economy" offering, so the idea of forcing back to something it was +15 years ago is pointless. Toyota has moved on. Camry delivers 52 MPG and the potential for a plug. RAV4 with its 39 MPG will be exploring that as well. Both are larger vehicles targeting the family audience.

Put another way, I find it absurd for you to expend so much effort hoping for a squished middle spot. It's not comfortable sitting there in a regular Prius. Anyone who's taken the time to consider options for a people mover would simply purchase a larger vehicle. So even if the convenience of trading the comfortable & handy center armrest with storage for a seat, that won't be a draw anyway.

Know your audience. The market has shifted.

 

I agree. The person who wrote the article in the initial post notes that, "I think..." the Pruis is a thing of the past. I think the other way, and so in a voting contest, it's a draw. Toyota is not stupid. They are gearing up for the future, and milking the cash cows while they can. I think the Tesla will be the chump car of the future. They are poorly made, expensive, hard to repair and without the electronic controls (which can be applied to any drive train) and are severely range-limited slugs. You can tell that they cannot hold their own when the most frequent claim to fame is their 0 to 60 time -- a completely useless feature/benefit. Let's use range and time to fuel as the criteria. Prius wins.

A few days ago I drove by a Tesla Supercharger in Palm Desert with a huge line and wait time. Got my Techron at the nearby petrol stop, checked the oil and was in LA before many of the slugs even had a sip of electrons. Foam Finger No. 1! Prius wins.

 

A spike in fuel prices will trigger (yet another) mass migration to more fuel efficient
automobiles. I think the Prius (Prime and Conventional) will fill this need as it always has.

 

Yeah move along, nothing' to see here.

Well he's got one subscriber.

 

Gotta have the right tool.

And this is why I keep a rickety old 84mpg 2000 Insight on the road with plans to update to lithium when the battery finally goes.

On long trips it will always be king.

Multi passenger cars are for 3+ occupants.
And Plug ins are best for local driving

I guess the market went somewhere that isn’t useful for me.

 

i didn't know i was obsessed, and it's no effort really. lets face it, prime has been a disappointment, as have gen4 sales. this isn't about camry or rav4, it is about prius losing sales to tesla, and that is a fact.

if toyota knew their audience, they wouldn't have to give up to $8,000. off to sell them.
that's nearly 25% on top of government tax incentives. how many cars can you say that about?

prime and gen4 need major improvements as the o/p suggests, to claw back some sales, but you and i both know it isn't going to happen.

and don't forget the osborne effect

 

You clearly don't understand Toyota's strategy... probably by having focused so much on seating. That red-herring has wasted so much of your time. Now, please read closely. I'll take the time to explain. First is to recognize audience:

TOYOTA IS NOT COMPETING WITH TELSA.

Got it? They are working to establish plug-in hybrid technology by transforming their own fleet. That push away from legacy offerings is a major undertaking, well worth putting some money on the hood in select markets. The real-world data they get in return is priceless.

So what if early-adopters seeking a new experience and taking advantage of the $7,500 discount experience Tesla? That in no way guarantees future purchases anyway. Just look at how many conquest sales GM gained with Volt only to lose later to Tesla.

It's all about changing the status quo, not scoring praise by pursuing low-hanging fruit. Keep in mind that 200,000 tax-credits is a drop in the bucket. Through November of last year, Toyota sold 298,991 Camry, 257,093 Corolla; 224,128 Tacoma, 221,386 Highlander, and 159,189 RAV in the United States alone. That perspective is very important to knowing why focus on Tesla isn't important. Toyota must appeal to their dealers. That means the new technology offerings must deliver a nice profit and be easy to sell. Aggressive rollout of TNGA and the spread of hybrid choices is so important.

In the meantime, PHV/Prime likely came close to 60,000 purchases globally in 2018. Knowing all that above, now explain how it is disappointing.

 

We know that, and that is exactly the problem
From all evidence I have seen, Toyota has lost far more Prius sales to Tesla than GM has lost Volt sales.

Now, I grant you Tesla and Prius vehicles are not traditionally in the same market. However, Tesla seems to have found an formula that has succeeded in gobbling up some of the Prius market, as well as the more traditional A4, C-class, 3-series vehicles.
Hybrids have a formula for selling cars to people if gas prices are high AND they can afford a $20k + vehicle.

If Toyota doesn't step up by the time Tesla gets their China factory built and running full speed, the hurting will really begin.

 

Teslas are one of the few EVs that are basically not range limited. Not sure what data you're using to back up that statement. Their whole fleet does 200-300mi per charge.

Have you ever driven or sat in one? For people that care about driving experience but also want an EV, Tesla is king. I'm a car-guy, and my Prius is very limiting in the amount of enjoyment I get out of my commute.

If you don't care about cars, yes, Prius probably wins. But for the enthusiasts, Tesla has the market cornered.

 

I tend to agree with this. I think it seems that what Toyota is missing out on could be fixed with the introduction of an all-electric Lexus LS. Tesla has established that there is a green luxury market to be exploited, so why not?

 

People are.
But I think it's wrong to frame this discussion as a competition between Prius and Tesla.
Honestly, I respect both products.
Tesla's are amazing machines. But they are in a different place, on almost every level than a Prius. To me, the only similarities between a full EV Tesla and a Prius or Prius Prime, is the fact that both products are "alternatives" to full ICE vehicles.
Tesla and Toyota as companies, are in entirely different places. Toyota is a global automotive GIANT. Tesla is still a niche market start up, despite their success.

Prius, built, backed, sold and distributed by Toyota, is an available mainstream product. You typically don't have to put your name on a waiting list to buy a Prius.
Tesla's are much more of a niche market, higher end, specialty purchase. It reflects in the cost NOT only the cost of initial purchase, but also the projected cost of any long term ownership beyond warranty.

Tesla S models, are much, much more expensive than a Prius. The investments aren't even comparable.
Tesla 3 models are closer to higher end Prius, especially after currently available tax incentives, but they are still more expensive, and not "mainstream" available.
And Tesla does NOT have the same long term parts supply chain that would answer what the cost of longer term ownership would be, when parts start to break after warranty periods expire. They don't have a dealer network anywhere comparable to Toyota.

This is NOT me championing Prius nor taking shots at Tesla.
But IMO, they are with Toyota and Prius, and Tesla...and well...Tesla's... not comparable companies, and barely comparable products or ownership experiences.

I believe if Kaley Cuoco snapped her fingers in Toyota Superbowl Genie commercial like fashion and suddenly Tesla did not exist, Prius sales right now, would STILL be down. I don't think the down tick in Prius sales, and the panache and legitimate growth of Tesla are connected symptoms of either ones existence.

I believe there are reasons Prius and Hybrids will continue to exist.
And I applaud and hope for continued success for Tesla.

 

i had to google kaley cuoco

 

everyone repeat after me:

prius sales are not down because of tesla

prius sales are not down because of the gen4 design

prius sales are not down because they don't make a bev

prius sales are not down because of low gas prices

prius sales are not down due to other hybrid competition

prius sales are not down due to americans penchant for crossovers/suvs

prius sales are not down because of...

 

you must have me confused with someone else.
i'm not hoping for a squished middle spot, that was toyota's doing. i'm hoping for a full hatch

 

Oh come on...
It wasn't that long ago...those IMO were good Toyota Commercials. Not deep or philosophical, but fun.

 

I’m in no way a Tesla fanboy but...

John1701a makes me feel like I am reading a post on the Tesla forum

So here goes Mr. Obvious pushing a fanboy feel


Tesla Model 3 = #1 Best Selling Car In The US

Tesla Model 3 = #1 Best Selling Car In The US (In Revenue) | CleanTechnica

Tesla is on track to sell a quarter million cars this year

And the average sale price is over $65000 a unit

AKA The sales may be early adopter related but let’s face it the buyers of $65,000+ cars aren’t affected financially by a $7500 discount.

This means Tesla holds 5% of the car market by volume compared to Toyota’s 14.1%
But financially their $$$ sales are more comparable


Just a dose of reality


I think it more likely TSLA will go bankrupt from “other” issues but customers will not be why.


On that I agree Volt sales were conquest sales bringing folks to the brand that never bought GM and thus as the Volt goes away aren’t lost sales to anyone
since those folks weren’t really GM guys to begin with.
Just icing sales that move with the tax credit to whomever still gets the credit.

my view also was that the tax credit should eclipse for all manufacturers at the same time, that would have egged more into the pool instead of biding their time for a late financial advantage . (Use it or loose it)


Ah well too bad so sad, small car enthusiasts are going to have slim pickings in the upcoming years thanx to the audience changing.