Don't spend a fortune installing electrical

Discussion in 'Prime Plug-in Charging' started by Marine Ray, Dec 16, 2019.

  1. Marine Ray

    Marine Ray Senior Member

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    #1 Marine Ray, Dec 16, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
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  2. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

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    I found it "kinda" interesting, but this article was mostly written for BIG battery EV cars, not necessarily our Prius Prime with its smaller battery.

    Charging at a faster rate like Level 2 is of course up to the needs of that individual owner. I personally love being able to charge up in 2 1/2 hours using the Toyota OE EVSE unit for almost free.


    Rob43
     
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  3. Marine Ray

    Marine Ray Senior Member

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    Me, not being knowledgeable in electricity, was his electrical "amps, watts, volts, etc" accurate?
    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  4. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

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    The writer is all over the place with amp, volt, and price statements. Can you quote a direct sentence ?


    Rob43
     
  5. Marine Ray

    Marine Ray Senior Member

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    Not really. Figured if you didn't raise the BS flag right away, the article was at least in the ball park. Thx.
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  6. Elektroingenieur

    Elektroingenieur Senior Member

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    I’m not sure I’d agree. The basic points—that a Level 1 charger may suffice for some EV users, and that a knowledgable electrician may be able to suggest lower-cost installation alternatives—are fair enough, but the article is weakened by errors, of which I mention two only.

    The author writes, “[T]he electrical code demands that your house be able to handle everything being turned on at once — dryer, oven, air conditioner and car,” which simply isn’t correct. The National Electrical Code has specific procedures for calculating service loads; in the 2017 edition published by NFPA, see Article 220, Parts III and IV, and the examples in Informative Annex D. Notably, the optional procedures for dwelling units in 220.82 and 220.83 use formulations such as “100 percent of the first 10 kVA plus 40 percent of the remainder” or “[t]he largest of the following six selections,” in effect applying demand and diversity factors, rather than just summing all of the connected loads as the author claims.

    The author writes, of a branch circuit for a receptacle used with Level 1 EVSE, that “It has to be dedicated — nothing else on that circuit breaker.” This is generally a good idea, but it’s a code requirement only for new outlets “installed for the purpose of charging electric vehicles” (NEC 2017, 625.40).

    Perhaps I’m fastidious in such matters, but I’d also hesitate to take electrical engineering advice, especially about the details of installation codes, from anyone who writes “plug” when “outlet” or “receptacle” is meant.
     
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  7. Marine Ray

    Marine Ray Senior Member

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    Thanks for your feedback. Would you be willing to communicate this with the author of the article? It is Fortune magazine.
     
  8. m8547

    m8547 Active Member

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    The article is full of minor errors, misleading statements, and over-simplifications. I stopped reading. Forbes is a bit of a content farm these days, not so much a reputable news source anymore, so I doubt it's worth contacting the author. It would be more work than just writing your own article. But the basic point is reasonable, that if you only drive a certain amount in a day, you only need a charger that can provide that amount of charge (or a bit more) overnight. But if you have a non-Tesla EV where public charging is slow or expensive and hard to find, then I think you need to size the charger for the worst case scenario, which is probably getting back from a trip with an empty battery, then going on a longer than average drive (but not totally draining the battery) the next day. I think charging an EV with only L1 would cause some serious range anxiety, even though I think it would work for most people's commutes and average daily driving.
     
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  9. Old Bear

    Old Bear Senior Member

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    In a general, big picture kind of way, Brad Templeton did an OK job addressing some of the issues. He would have been well-served to have let a practicing electrical engineer or electrician do a quick editorial proof-reading to clarify some of his points and to bring consistency to his use of terminology. (e.g., a plug is inserted into a receptacle. That thing mounted on the wall is not a "plug.")

    The article makes an attempt to get one thinking about one's vehicle use pattern and determining how-much how-fast one needs to re-charge one's vehicle to sustain, say, daily commuting. It does not address how other use patterns -- such as lots of random short trips to run errands separated by periods of being parked at home charging -- might affect one's decision. And, of course, no mention of shorter range BEVs and PHEVs which may need to be charged more frequently for shorter periods of time.

    This, and all the other comments here on Prius Chat, show that the subject is more complex and nuanced than one might expect. Kind of like standing in front of the 200+ brands, styles and flavors of yogurt at the supermarket and turning to the fellow shopper next to you and asking "Which one do I want?"
     
    #9 Old Bear, Dec 17, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2019
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  10. Marine Ray

    Marine Ray Senior Member

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    Agree, sometimes too many choices is too much.
     
  11. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    When I read that in the article I thought, "Really?! When did they change that?" :D

    Yeah, lots of technical errors, but the general idea that you might not need max power for your charging needs is valid. But then again, you may discover, as I have, that sometimes you just can't get charge back up fast enough.

    I've been noticing that lately. Lots of headlines from Forbes in my Flipboard feed that are just clickbait.