Dorman vs Greentec vs Falcon (Prius Rebuilders) vs HVS?

It's not so much the company itself but the quality of the modules used for rebuilding. They are used and can last 1 day or many years, nobody really knows

 

My ReInVolt (Dorman's Predecessor) was installed 66k miles (over three years ago) and is still working. It only had a 12 month warranty, but Dorman now gives a three year warranty due to very good experience in real life use of the ReInVolt rebuilds in the field. ReInVolt was using selected, low mileage Gen2 modules at that time for their rebuilds. I would ask for a rebuild that uses only Gen3 modules at this time.

If care is taken in the selection of the modules used in a rebuild as well as a careful rebalancing, load testing and equalization of the modules before assembly, a rebuild can last a long time. There are several factors that can lead to a traction battery failure:

• Heat - overheating will quickly degrade all of the modules. Get replacement modules that lived in a cool climate and preferably in a location with flat topology (no mountain roads).
• Cell reversal - This is what happened to my original battery at 195k miles. As you traction battery is cycled many times in normal use the cells (6 per module and you have 28 modules in a 2004-2015 Prius) will slowly have differing charge levels. When your Prius discharges the HV battery to 40% SOC the cell with the lowest SOC can reach o% and the resulting cell voltage reversal immediately destroys that cell. My other 27 modules recovered to almost full capacity when rebalanced.
• Corrosion - the battery Buss bars and ECU sense leads are subject to failures due to corrosion as there are harsh chemicals inside the modules and they can leak a bit (especially Gen1 modules).
• Gen1 modules were also subject to drying out. Later modules seem to be better as their seals are improved.

JeffD

 

Agreed, but that is a HUGE if, that the customer has no control over.

The longer warranty is certainly appreciated, but I wonder about the motivation and value. In order to compete with New, OEM that cost ~ $2000 and carry a one year warranty, rebuilds have to be some mixture of

1. Cheaper
2. Longer Warranty

They have for the most part chosen (2), but that warranty is still quite a bit less than what we *expect* from a new battery, and use of the warranty will typically incur 'shipping' costs. Moreover, the warranty is really only as good as the owner of the rebuild business wants it to be. E.g., I cannot help but wonder why 'Falcon' changed it's name. Is that new-named company honoring the warranty it gave under it's old name ? Does it have to ? Certainly an easy BK will render the warranties meaningless.

 

All one can do is research the organization to establish confidence that they emphasize quality work and customer service. I had confidence in Dave Taylor (the person who started ReInVolt) since Bob Wilson had visited them, reviewed their process and installed a rebuilt HV battery in one of his Prii before me. Dave is still involved with Dorman, but as a larger organization their processes may need further review. I would also have confidence having a low mileage salvaged battery or a rebuilt HV installed by a shop that cares about customer service. The best example I know of is Steve at Prius hybrids sales and service Scottsburg Indiana who would not release a repaired Prius that he worked on without establishing confidence that it will be reliable. Others that have had good reviews on PC and I would use when in their vicinity are:

• Dave Taylor in NC
• Ari in south central CA
• Lucious and Art's in SF
• Mellor's in central FL

There are others, but you need to do the research.

JeffD

 

I'm just waiting for the Chinese companies to come out with "compatible" NEW modules at a fraction of the cost of the OEM. They've been able to make batteries for all your devices at home, surely with the 1 million plus Prius cars that need modules, they can whip up something too. Even if it lasts only 3 years vs 8 years, it'll at least be "consistent" and hopefully cheap. Here's hoping.........

 

You can cross LG off your list. Carolyn Coquillette, the owner of LG, stopped installing rebuilt batteries some time ago because her source could not deliver refurbs that met her quality expectations. She now will only recommend installation of new OEM. There are a couple of lessons she teaches:

1. Although I do not doubt her ability to rebuild a battery successfully, she outsourced the work. I read: it is labor intensive to do a good job.
2. Even she could not find a supplier that met quality expectations.

Her blog on the topic is interesting. She does not fault her supplier for lousy procedure, but points out that the quality of rebuilds fluctuates with the quality of modules for sale on the secondary market. At the time that she decided that rebuilds were a bad choice, only used G2 modules were being used. That will still be the case for older G2 Prius, to avoid (as you have pointed out) mixing high and low resistance modules.

All in all, this means that while it is possible to end up with a long-lasting rebuild from a conscientious, ethical and informed rebuilder, there are a number of reasons, not the least of which is Toyota's low price for a new battery, that put rebuilds at a competitive disadvantage and therefore increased risk of unsatisfactory outcomes. DIY replacement of a single failed module will remain an enduring and great anecdote.

The battery rebuilding industry OTOH, is in a difficult place.
My personal opinion: if a rebuilder offers a COMPLETE swap of lightly used or new G3 batteries into a G2 case for a competitive price I'll be an interested consumer. Otherwise I'll buy a new OEM G2 battery from Toyota.

 

If you do a complete 38 module swap, sure. But as soon as you try to mix new modules with old ones compatibility is a lot harder to achieve, let alone ensure.

<podium>I tend to think that the US labor involved in high quality rebuilding is just too expensive to compete against new. I'm hoping that rebuilders will find a business worth pursuing in buying a new OEM battery or a lightly used G3 traction battery and swapping ALL the modules into a G2 case for subsequent owner installation. Perhaps that will let then skip the diagnostic circus and balancing act. </podium>

 

Yes this would be to swap either the 28 or 38 modules completely out. This is a process that's much easier than replacing individual modules and balancing the entire pack afterwards.

Also your comment about swapping in modules from Gen3 to Gen2 case,many advertise this service however there is not much you can do to prove the modules are in fact from lightly used Gen3 cars or even from Gen3 cars period! This unknown would keep me away, unless it's done by yours truly.

 

So far as I can tell, those adverts are partial swaps of only the modules the rebuilder deems failed.

 

Here in So Cal craigslist section, you will find tons of services on "rebuilding" for $300-$700. These are truly module swaps and nothing more with ridiculous 1 or 2 year warranties that will be hard to get honored. But at $300 one may want to take a chance but the ones advertised nationally for $1500 or more for something quite similar?????? And the shipping costs associated with warranty claims would be the responsibility of the end user, which can cost hundreds or thousands if the warranty repair is required multiples times during the warranty period. The smart money is in buying new.....just as Luscious Garage has figured out.

 

$1500 appears to be a partial swap also, but with more involved diagnostics to find failed/failing modules and a better rebalancing routine.

I pretty much agree with buying new*, although a "new" 2004 MY battery is not my idea of a good deal. I'll demand a 2009 MY battery.

*A full module swap of either lightly used G3, or a new G3 battery pack is also a good choice.

 

I personally won't know what to do when the time comes to replace a "failed" battery. If a car is 10 years old, I would want to get rid of it because the paint would have faded and other parts may soon fail.

On my 2005, I was lucky enough to find a 2012 purchased Gen2 pack for $500 on craigslist. I swapped out the "perfectly working" pack before it failed and thought the 2012 pack would outlast the car.

 

Sounds like a smart gamble. How is pack doing, and what year is it ?

 

The newer 2012 pack is doing great, I don't expect any problems from it until at least 2020.

My 2005 pack however has become a learning tool for me. I opened it up and cleaned it. Had a bit of lint/dust in there. I then took the entire pack apart, in doing so made a mistake in breaking 1 module (hated myself for this, had my impact wrench set to tighten instead of loosen, broke off a mounting bolt....not careful amateur mistake). So now I have lots of good modules on hand for whenever I need it. I did sell 3 of them to a friend for $40 bucks ea, so got $120 back on my $500 investment.

 

Did you do a complete swap of G3 modules into a G2 case ?

 

no, the one I bought was a Gen2 pack purchased in 2012. The donor car was 2004 with 450k miles with a transaxle failure. They replaced the battery back in 2012 when the car had around 380k miles on it.

 

Could you tell what year the replacement pack was manufactured ?

 

No, there was no identifying codes on there to determine the date (at least I couldn't find anything). I know there's mention these packs could be from 2004 - ??? But I have yet to hear of anyone mentioning a failed replacement pack from Toyota. So I'm going by the assumption these are fairly fresh packs built around the time of purchase and not much before, even though they are for Gen2 that were from 2004-2009. But only time will tell.

 

Thanks for the information. I may be wrong, but I thought manufacturers are required to show manufacture date. It might however be encoded.